[MD] Where does logic itself belong inside the MOQ?

[John Carl]

hey Magnus,


> Ok, so this "Philosophy of Loyalty" is Royce's child? That quote seems to
> give it a rather human-centric stance, but I guess it's larger than that.



Philosophy of Loyalty is Definitely Royce's child.  I went back to the
google books version of Clendenning and typed it out because it seems pretty
apt, even though long, and clarifies my reasons for devotion to Royce and
his congruence with Pirsig's Moq.

I also found it fascinating because I never realized before that Royce's
later years were seen as a precursor to Existentialism.


In the first eight years of the twentieth century, the years that followed
Royce's masterful achievement in the The World and the Individual, his life
and work descended from zenith to nadir.... His work in logic was promising,
but most of it went unnoticed, and his two fine series of lectures--"some
Characteristics of the Thinking Process" and "Some Aspects of Post-Kantian
Idealism"-- were eclipsed by the rise of pragmatism.  Thus, he passed
through a phase of his life in which he received many honors and much
recognition, more  for work already accomplished than for a future that
anyone expected.  It was as if he and his books had been retired to
history.  The tragic story of Christopher seems a metaphor of Royce's
decline from hopeful beginnings to premature collapse.


  Royce, however, was unwilling to accept retirement.  As we have previously
seen, he had an astonishing resilience, an ability to force pain to serve as
a source of insight.  The next phase of Royce's life, though it was to be
scarred by still greater personal tragedies, became his most mature period.
In the five years between 1908 and 1913 he published five major books, at at
least two of them--The Philosophy of Loyalty and the Problem of
Christianity-- are often cited as his most enduring contributions to modern
thought.  Among the principal characteristics of Royce's philosophy in these
works are his subordination of absolutism to community relationships and a
growing indifference to cosmology in favor of the more immediate issues of
daily life.  Now he advanced the theories for which he has been accurately
recognized as a precursor of existentialism.  From a biographical viewpoint
it is significant that Royce's emphasis on this more humanistic side of his
philosophy was concurrent with a series of terrible shocks to his private
life, shocks that brought him down from the Olympian heights of abstraction
and put him in closer contact with his feelings.  In his own words, the
result of this shift in emphasis was "a new attainment .. a new growth."


>
> And thanks for the additional pointers, perhaps I'll get some time to read
> some of it.



No excessive disparagement, but man have I heard THAT a lot...




>
> Yes, different logics. I'd say every major field of research has one of its
> own, each corresponding to one level. However, the further up the level
> ladder you get, the logic gets less and less exact and useful.



Interesting you put it that way.  I agree with you up to the point where you
equate "less exact" with "less useful".  I'd posit the opposite, actually.
 The more flexible the system, the harder it is to break and the more
enjoyable it is to use.



>
>
>  The stumble block is the levels and their borders, each level has its own
>>> rules and they can *not* be expressed in terms of each other's rules.
>>> That's
>>> what the MoQ adds to the equation of our reality and SOM and other
>>> systems
>>> seems to have missed. Reality is simply much more complex than others
>>> seem
>>> to think, and the levels are what makes it that much more complex.
>>>
>>
>> Perhaps the levels create more complexity in the study of reality as a
>> whole, but they make comprehension at the discrete level, much simpler,
>> imo.
>>
>
> Yes, absolutely! I wasn't implying they were a bad thing, I meant the
> levels are what make reality such an intricate place, but our understanding
> of the levels is what will make us understand it.



And even more relevant to this undertaking, is how it helps us deal with
reality.  Understanding is all fine and good, but what I like is a
philosophical system that helps me in the attainment of ponies and blowjobs.


Take care,

John - dreaming of the day soon when Google books scans are OCR - converted.