[MD] What Bo Doesn't Get

[Krimel]

> [Krimel]
> Evolution doesn't drive anything. It is a description of how patterns 
> adapt in response to change, flux, uncertainty; in other words dynamic 
> quality. Evolution is a reflexive process where the output of one cycle 
> becomes the input for the next.

Dan:
Dynamic Quality isn't change and uncertainty. Evolution is the process
of natural selection.

[Krimel]
I snipped the Pirsig quotes because I have discussed them at length many
times. In short, Pirsig's understanding of evolution is shamefully wrong.
This clearly is not his area of expertise and his thinking on the matter was
way off target even considering the time during which he was writing. Citing
Pirsig as an "expert" on evolution is just embarrassing.

But take the sketch you outline about. Natural selection does not mean that
Mother Nature is gussied up in a nice apron picking and choosing which of
her offspring deserve to make up the next generation. Natural selection is
purely and simply a matter of chance. It is static patterns congealing out
of dynamic and chaotic interactions. If only Pirsig had understood this.

But just to take a small example from your Pirsig quotes:

"Dynamic Quality is not structured and yet it is not chaotic."

This was "common sense" when Pirsig wrote Lila but any thinking adult today
should be able to see that it is false. For one thing many things that are
structured are chaotic. The stock market is highly structured and yet it is
unpredictable and chaotic on a day to day basis. Structures and patterns are
subsets of chaos they are not different from or other than chaos. Static and
dynamic are relative terms that describe a continuum of chaotic behavior.
That really is the central point of the MoQ. At least an MoQ that actually
has a contribution to make.

[Pirsig]
"Good! The "undefined fittest" they are defending is identical to
Dynamic Quality. Natural selection is Dynamic Quality at work. There
is no quarrel whatsoever between the Metaphysics of Quality and the
Darwinian Theory of Evolution. Neither is there a quarrel between the
Metaphysics of Quality and the "teleological" theories which insist
that life has some purpose. What the Metaphysics of Quality has done
is unite these opposed doctrines within a larger metaphysical
structure that accommodates both of them without contradiction."
(LILA)

Dan:
Undefined fittest is identical to Dynamic Quality. Not change, not
uncertainty, not chaos, not any sort of concept at all. Do you see?

[Krimel]
OK, you suckered me into another of Pirsig's silly quotes from Chapter 11. I
totally agree that Natural selection is DQ at work. In fact I would say that
both the MoQ and evolutionary theory are about how static forms come to
exist and persist under chaotic conditions. If only Pirsig had had the good
sense to stop there.

[Dan]
Thanks Krimel, and good to have you back,

[Krimel]
Thanks Dan, but relax I won't be here long.