[MD] What Bo Doesn't Get

[Andre Broersen]

Krimel to Mati:
I think the intellectual level was around way before cave art, which dates
to about 40,000 years ago. But cave art and burial of the dead are
among the first bits of evidence we have of an intellectual "level".
They suggest not just that thoughts occurred but that they persisted
in time and were shared within a community.

Aristotle and the Greeks just happen to coincide with a period during
which writing had allowed for the accumulation of ideas to the point
of critical mass. It was a marvelous time but it is not the beginning;
it is merely a particular phase where in recognizably modern forms of
thinking begin to appear.

Andre:Hi Krimel, Mati:
Not sure if Pirsig would agree here Krimel...sure...there was
thinking...whole mythologies were developed to make sense of the world
and the cosmos but it had not yet 'matured' to a scientific
understanding of reality (i.e scientifically ordered reality). This,
as Pirsig argues ocurred with Aristotle. Prior to this, reality was
understood as dominated by the gods who, at their whim, dominated,
controlled and determined the course of human action and thought.

Krimel:
I don't think it is possible for intellect to precede society but if that
were the case it would indeed be a problem for the MoQ. However, we
see that the social level is primary in almost all primates and most
mammals. Intellect on the other hand only begins to show up in the
great apes.

Andre:
See one of Pirsig's annotations...do apes think? do earth worms think?
does the amoeba think?
Extending the intellectual level down to this level renders intellect
meaningless. You have to cut it off somewhere, Pirsig suggested.
Remember Phaedrus' description of Lila: biologically she's fine,
socially not very high on the scale, as an intellectual she is
nowhere...yet she can cook, count, do the shopping, have conversations
and talk real posh...if she wants to...but this has very little to do
with the intellectual level.
At least this is how I read the MoQ.

Krimel
These are all fine reasons for preferring MoQ over SOM. But nothing in
what you say suggests that they are sufficiently different to
constitute a
different level. Giraffes are very different from elephant but both are
vertebrates, both are mammals. Even the platypus however difficult it
was to classify finds its way into a comfortable niche in the tree of
life.

Andre:
Niche...a nation of 2? A platypus is an organic pattern of values!
Full stop!!

There are a lot of things all of us still don't get either.Imho.

Andre