[MD] Metaphysics

[MarshaV]

Nice post.  


On Jan 9, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Andre Broersen wrote:

> Steve to Andre:
> Where do you find this "true MOQ sense" of the word metaphysics?
> 
> Andre:
> Well Steve, to be pedantic, these were Bodvar’s words and I understand
> his words to mean that the description of reality given by Pirsig is
> the most accurate description possible without falling into SOM
> distinctions and arguments. As I quoted him (Bodvar), merely naming DQ
> does that make DQ any less real?
> 
> Steve:
> Everything that Pirsig writes on the subject takes a particular
> metaphysics to be one possible intellectual construction among an
> infinite possibility for descriptions of Quality.
> 
> In what sense is your idea of the "true MOQ sense" the true MOQ sense
> of what the "true MOQ" says? I can't tell what you could mean by this
> phrase and what you could mean by "the MOQ" if MOQ is not synonymous
> with the philosophy of Robert M Pirsig as outlined in Lila and ZAMM.
> 
> Andre:
> Pirsig himself has stated that his philosophy (the MoQ) is more
> encompassing, inclusive and has far more explanatory power than
> everything that has gone before...i.e.SOM in all its variations and
> guises. Northrop continually criticises philosophies on the basis of
> confusing the’ ought’ with the’ is’. Most philosophies do not reflect
> what ‘is’ but the way things ‘ought to be’/ or ‘should be’ and upon
> this basis analyse ‘reality’ and project (future) ways of thinking and
> acting. (Marx’s dialectical materialism, based on Hegel, Fichte and
> its source, Kant is a [disastrous] case in point.
> Actually, the MoQ is the first metaphysics I have come across to
> reflect the ‘is’ as opposed to the ‘ought’. And in this sense I
> understand Pirsig’s own caution that his MoQ is not a quick fix
> programme that will solve all moral conflicts in this world overnight.
> It merely clarifies and orders Reality within a moral, evolutionary
> framework i.e. DQ/SQ.
> 
> Steve:
> In the MOQ, "true statements about reality" are not to be confused
> with Quality itself and there is not just one true statement to be
> made about reality...
> 
> Andre:
> Agree, all statements referring to the inorganic, organic, social and
> intellectual level are provisional.
> 
> Steve:
> You've painted Bo as the true believer, as some sort of MOQ
> fundamentalist--an odd sort of fundamentalist who does not see the
> actual text of what Pirsig wrote in inventing his MOQ as having much
> to do with the MOQ--as if Bo is the one who is being the most faithful
> to Pirsig's MOQ while also claiming that Pirsig himself has the MOQ
> all wrong. This is absurd.
> 
> Andre:
> Indeed I have painted Bodvar as a forceful,  committed and passionate
> follower of Quality. The truth of his interpretation of the MoQ
> remains provisional. All I can gather from his arguments and evidence
> is that it makes sense.
> I would not claim, and doubt if Bodvar actually says this, that Pirsig
> has his own MoQ ‘all wrong’. What I do detect (and Bodvar has been at
> this much longer than I have)  is that Pirsig’s statements are, at
> times, ambiguous ( which is okay) confusing ( which is sort of okay)
> and contradictory ( which is not very helpful...to wit: the
> intellectual level).
> 
> And then, amongst others, Krimel comes along with his ideas about this
> level, John has other ideas, Bodvar  has his ideas...it seems we all
> have our own ideas about this. The test is to match them against the
> words and consistency of Pirsig’s own arguments and definitions. And,
> to be fair, in the end we use our own experience of Quality as we
> integrate them within the static PoV’s we call our own, which leads to
> a further diversification and richness of everything else.
> 
> Steve:
> What do you think it means to commit yourself to the MOQ?
> 
> Andre:
> To change, in as many ways that I can experience, a SOM steeped past
> into a MoQ immersed now.
> 
> Cheers,
> Andre
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