[MD] Intellect's Symposium

[MarshaV]

Mary,

You wanted to tell me that your opinion of my opinion is not useful to you.  Okay.


Marsha







On Jan 9, 2010, at 1:09 PM, Mary wrote:

>> There has been an ongoing low-level disagreement between you and 
>> Marsha about her "Wooly headed" meanderings into Buddhism.  I agree, 
>> though likely not for the same reasons you do.  IMHO, these "moon 
>> meanderings" are nice, but are not useful to me.  I cannot use any of 
>> Marsha's statements to assist me with solving a computer problem, 
>> getting my son to do his homework, or cooking dinner.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of MarshaV
> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 11:37 AM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Intellect's Symposium
> 
> 
> Mary,
> 
> Why did you address this to me?     
> 
> 
> Marsha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 9, 2010, at 11:52 AM, Mary wrote:
> 
>> Hi Bo, Marsha and all,
>> 
>> I do not know who Paul Turner is, and I do not know why Pirsig wrote to
> him,
>> nor when.  Perhaps you can point me to these letters?  Based on the
> snippets
>> you quote, though, I am disturbed.  He appears to be watering down the
>> original MoQ.  I hate to see it.
>> 
>> I started rereading Lila for the first time in 10 years just the other
>> night.  I am on Page 37 of the Bantam paperback.  Yes, I am a slow reader,
>> and also, my job prevents me from having much free time to do anything.
>> Someday, someone will invent software that is smart enough to fix itself.
>> At which time I will no longer have a job.  There will be a day when this
>> happens to most of us.  It has already happened to many.  Cloud Computing
> is
>> bad news for those of us in the computer field.  Anyway, so far in the
> book,
>> everything is an object lesson in the (not yet revealed) definition of the
>> Social level.  A good place to start.
>> 
>> Early on, Pirsig mentions that he considered naming the MoQ the
> "Metaphysics
>> of Value".  I kind of wish he had stuck with that, at least as far as it
>> relates to the levels.  IMHO, the difference between the levels lie not in
>> their mechanical differences, but in what they _value_.  Why is it so hard
>> for many to see that the Intellectual level has _nothing_ to do with IQ,
>> thinking, or thinking about thinking?  That set of patterns has been there
>> to one degree or another from the very start.  To argue with me about this
>> requires you to convince me that the people who wrote the old testament
> were
>> of a different species.  There is plenty of "intellect" in the Biological
>> level.  There is plenty of "intellect" in computer systems today too.  Are
>> computers operating on the Intellectual level?
>> 
>> As I see it the S/O split has existed from time immemorial.  My dog
>> understands that she is different from the dog food she is eating, and me
> -
>> who scratches her behind her ears.  No, she does not recognize herself in
> a
>> mirror, but you gotta remember that dogs "see" the world mainly in terms
> of
>> scent.  They only see in black, white, and red (handy to see blood if you
>> are a carnivore, I think).  When she looks at herself in the mirror, there
>> are no smells coming back to her.  Same if I show her a picture of a dog.
>> In her world these things have no value, because they do not smell like
> the
>> thing they represent.  So much of science is homo-centric.  The mirror
> test
>> somebody mentioned is a prime example.  IMO, this is pseudo-science, ripe
>> for starting a religion around, as all pseudo-science is.  
>> 
>> The S/O split did not start with Aristotle.  He was an individual with a
>> name, among a group of other individuals with names.  Any situation where
>> naming is involved indicates that the S/O split is long entrenched.
>> Wouldn't you agree?  The S/O split began in the Biological level, serves
> an
>> essential purpose, and is a very necessary pattern of value if you want to
>> get through the day.  It works.  If I am one with the Universe (i.e., the
>> Universe is me and I am it), why not try to position my car in the exact
>> same location in space and time as your car?  I believe this is otherwise
>> known as a car wreck.
>> 
>> There has been an ongoing low-level disagreement between you and Marsha
>> about her "Wooly headed" meanderings into Buddhism.  I agree, though
> likely
>> not for the same reasons you do.  IMHO, these "moon meanderings" are nice,
>> but are not useful to me.  I cannot use any of Marsha's statements to
> assist
>> me with solving a computer problem, getting my son to do his homework, or
>> cooking dinner.
>> 
>> Mary's definition of the Intellectual Level based on Lila:  It is the
>> pattern of values which hold seeking the truth above all preconceived
>> notions and strongly held beliefs.  It is the pattern of value that takes
>> the personal ego out of the equation.  The Intellectual level values
> finding
>> the truth - even if it turns out that you are wrong.
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> Mary
>> - The most important thing you will ever make is a realization. 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> _______________________________________________________________________
> 
> Shoot for the moon.  Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars...     
> 
> 
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> 
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Shoot for the moon.  Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars...