[MD] Intellectual and Social

[plattholden at gmail.com]

Hi Mary,

Right you are according to the MOQ. But some people believe God 
accounts for many things just as many others believe chance explains a 
lot (the "Oops" crowd). My point was that all-purpose explanations that 
ultimately depend on a mysterious force (DQ, God, Chance, etc.) are 
vulnerable to legitimate criticism. When it comes right down to it, the  
convictions people have about the way the world works depend on one 
or more unprovable assumptions. Regardless of how convincing, all  
metaphysics begins with a leap of faith.      

Platt

On 10 Jan 2010 at 9:29, Mary wrote:

> Hi Platt,
> 
> > aids is punishment for the sin of homosexuality.
> 
> The Biological Level is not capable of controlling the Social, and also does
> not care about Social Level "sin", as far as I know.
> 
> - Mary
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Andre Broersen
> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 12:19 AM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Intellectual and Social
> 
> Platt to Steve, Bruce:
> Bruce's example is an empirical fact established by observation and
> experiment. But, where is the evidence that values are involved?  How
> do we convince doubters that the germ-immunity conflict is a moral
> struggle? I mean it's easy to say that all battles are moral battles. But,
> how do you prove it in court?
> 
> Andre:
> Hi Platt, Steve, Bruce,
> The immunity pattern can be seen as a static latching device designed
> to preserve what has been gained. It does so 'on behalf of' the whole
> organism. The germ, responding to DQ, seeks to attack and thereby,
> undermine the gains made and preserved by the immune pattern on behalf
> of the whole organism.
> The activity of one germ threatens the functioning/health of the
> entire organism.
> 
> Too much DQ leads to degeneration, too much SQ leads to degeneration.
> The moral struggle is about maintaining an equilibrium between gains
> made and dynamic change.
> 
> At the cultural level I am reminded, for example, of the Black Rights
> movement led by Martin Luther King.
> These were moral battles between social and intellectual patterns. And
> the Courts did listen. (And Pirsig explains why in LILA).
> 
> Where is the evidence that NO values were involved?
> 
> Platt:
> I'm beginning to suspect that Pirsig's theory is like evolution, climate
> change and God's will because no matter what happens the theory
> applies.
> 
> Andre:
> You've lost me here Platt.
> 
> Platt:
> (Cave paintings were a survival tactic, global warming causes
> freezing weather in Miami, aids is punishment for the sin of
> homosexuality.)
> 
> Andre:
> Even farther astray.
> 
> Platt:
> Now comes the MOQ where a motorcycle is a moral
> victory over inertia (intellectual vs.inorganic levels.)
> 
> Andre:
> This is a peculiar way of seeing a victory. I'd rather see the
> motorcycle/inertia division as a wonderful expression of intellectual
> patterns interacting with the inorganic levels, through the mediation
> of the social and organic level, and producing an exceptionally nice
> piece of art.
> 
> Cheers
> Andre