[MD] Metaphysics

[Krimel]

[Krimel on Dawkins]
I don't hear any of them arguing that people aren't entitled to hold
whatever beliefs they wish but when they start to manipulate the law of the
land to promote their ideology that it another story. Fundamentalism is
powerful force; a kind of terrorism and I appreciate the efforts of a
thoughtful few to speak out against it.

[Mark's observation]
I currently work in the field of biological sciences. I would say the
ideology of science may manipulate the law.  Restrictions on smoking are
based on science.  The application of individual healthcare, such as fewer
mammograms, is manipulative and based on science.  Cap and trade is
supposedly based on science.  It may be difficult to see this because
science is accepted as truth.  Working in this field I see a different
aspect of it.  I see a selection of experiments and data to support a
theory.  Much of this is done subconsciously because we may be more attuned
to that which supports one's beliefs.

[Krimel]
Of course and it isn't all that difficult to see actually. You might have
added science teachers across the country have sought to inflict their
ideology on the masses of school children. Or, that feminists have sought to
inflict their ideology of the freedom of individual moral agents to decide
their own fate is ideological tyranny.

As a scientist you no doubt know that it is wrong for either scientists or
the public at large to take scientific knowledge as anything other than a
best guess. It is true that often confidence in the quality of scientific
guesses can lead to over confidence and appear to some as arrogance. But in
the realm of science that arrogance can be rapidly dispelled at any moment
by some new data or some new way of thinking about the data we already have.
Yes, paradigm shifts are met with all manner of resistance. But they do
happen. In faith based belief systems we almost never hear about paradigm
shifts or for than matter have any means of affecting them.  

[Mark]
I could go on, of course, on the ways in which science manipulates, but I'm
sure you are aware of these.  It is nothing nefarious (usually), but just
the result of a deep faith in science.

[Krimel]
I am happy to acknowledge a degree of faith in science. I have said so, many
times in the past. But I would like to point out that much of that "faith"
is in the self correcting nature of the ongoing pursuit of science and not
in any particular scientific claim. Science does not claim to yield a final
truth that cannot be questioned or challenged. In fact it demands quite the
opposite.

But you are right people of all persuasions vie to influence ideology and to
use the tools of government to enforce their ideology. All I or any of us
can do is attempt to justify our allegiance to whatever ideology we espouse.
That's democracy for you.