[MD] Metaphysics

[markhsmit]

On Jan 16, 2010, at 11:25:38 AM, "ARLO J BENSINGER JR" <ajb102 at psu.edu> wrote:
From:   "ARLO J BENSINGER JR" <ajb102 at psu.edu>
Subject:    Re: [MD] Metaphysics
Date:   January 16, 2010 11:25:38 AM PST
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
[Mark] 
My dogma is simply saying don't accept your dogma like a religious drone. 

[Arlo] 
This nonsense is tiring. Mark, if it somehow makes you feel better about your 
theism to go to all sorts of idiotic ends to paint me as being the same, knock 
yourself out. This is a common tactic, one theists have been using since 
failing to elevate religion to science. Now, as you evidence so loudly, its the 
opposite, reduce everything to religion.
If that is my tactic, I don't see it as being any different from your tactic.  Who spoke
of elevating?  Is science of a higher order?  How did that happen?  What system
of measurement do you use to determine this?  Please explain.


[Mark] 
Your aggressive note is typical of those trying to push a religion. 

[Arlo] 
No, Mark, my "aggressive note" is typical of someone tired of dealing with the 
same sophomoric accusations by theists for years. My "aggressive note" is 
frustration and exhaustion at seeing idiotic rhetoric like "typical of those 
trying to push a religion". You want to drag the whole world down to your 
level, so knock yourself out.
Again, I am dragging the world down to my level.  What reference points do you use
to establish what is higher and what is lower.  Perhaps if I can understand this,
I may see why you are so convinced of your premises.  What is up and what is down
in your system of faith?


[Mark] 
I'm sure you can pull together the military might to do so. Just ask people to 
sign up to save people from their own ignorance.  You can rule the world with 
your perception. 

[Arlo] 
Yeah, this is that moronic rhetoric that frustrates me. Thanks.
Oh, moronic, huh.  Stupid little me.  It is I who is frustrated with your little bubble.
It may be real safe in there, but it isn't real sturdy.  I suppose if you do
not question it, then it should survive.  Be careful with those sharp objects.


[Mark] 
Oh, yes, plate tectonics, now doesn't that make you seem right.  It is such a 
big word.  This is no different from explaining how Noah existed.  He must 
have, he is in a book. 

[Arlo] 
You have crossed so far into delusion, I don't even know what's left to say. If 
you honestly think the science of plate tectonics is a "faith-based" system no 
better and no worse that "angry interventionist god punishing voodoo 
workshippers"... yowza.
If you honestly believe that plate tectonics explains things, then voodoo you.  Go back
to your holy books and find more to recite.  This chanting is kind of soothing.


[Mark] 
OMG have I blasphemed?  What shall I do for penance, read Lila? 

[Arlo] 
If you want to understand what Pirsig wrote, that may be a good start. Better 
late than never. But I get it, Pirisg's anti-theistic philosophy pisses on your 
theism, and that makes you a sad panda. This pops up every now and again as 
people try to protect their investment in religion by either trying to make 
their religion "intellectual" or trying to reduce everything to their religion. 
You've opted for door number two. Kudos.
I do not accept the way in which you understand what Pirsig wrote.  It think you are dead wrong.
Writings are interpreted by the reader.  It is impossible to piss on my theism, because there is
non.  Show me where I have claimed to be theist.  I think you are fencing with windmills.
Such ghosts can seem as real as gravity seems.


[Mark] 
Rather than be against something, be for something. 

[Arlo] 
Oh but I am. I want to be just like you. I figure all I need is a lobotomy and 
some tights. 

I am "for something", but its not reducing everything to theism, that's for 
sure.
Reducing everything to Quality then?  Hmmm.


[Mark] 
There is nothing to fight against except your illusion. 

[Arlo] 
Yes there is, yours.
My illusion only becomes your fight when you have it.


[Mark] 
Oh, if I hold my breath I pass out.  But what is this stuff about oxygen? 
Where did you get that information?  From another one of your holy books? 

[Arlo] 
Wow. Sounds like you've been holding your breath more often than I suspected.

Hmm, no answer.  Am I to take this as not having one except that which you read in your holy
books?  OK


[Mark] 
All I am asking is how do you know? 

[Arlo] 
I suggest your read Peirce's insightful essay "The Fixation of Belief", it 
might get you started thinking about this. 

But if you want to beat the "all is theism" drum, I'm done. Please, though, 
continue to knock yourself out.
If you want to keep beating the notion that somehow your Quality is above a religion
then go ahead.  I hear it all the time here so you are not alone.  Lots of shoulders
to sob on.

I do not seem to get any answers to my questions, only religious rhetoric.  I expected
more, oh well.



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