[MD] Metaphysics

[Krimel]

[Arlo]
Well like I said, operating from a certain set of contingent premises 
is pretty much unavoidable. I guess for me the issue is with the 
notion of "faith". I see it differently, Krimel. "Faith" is held in 
spite of contrary evidence. "Contingence" (not to hijack Ian's word 
here) is held, well, contingent on a constant re-evaluation with 
consistency in experience. I do not have "faith" that when I turn on 
the spigot water will flow into my sink. I hold that in contingency, 
and if I see a broken pipe in my basement, I will no longer expect 
water out of my spigot*.

[Krimel]
I think holding a belief despite contrary evidence is what I would call
psychosis. I am not sure most "people of faith" really would cling to their
faith despite clear evidence to the contrary. I think for me at least faith
is a conscious decision to take a position when there is no way to invoke
evidence to the contrary. I accept, purely as a matter of faith that there
exists an external world populated with other minds. I am not a solipsist. I
have faith in my anti-solipsism. I have faith that my senses are not meant
to deceive me... Stuff like that...

[Krimel]
Having said that, I do find it distressing when Mark and Platt and to 
a certain extent Marsha use this distinction of degree to claim no 
difference at all.

[Arlo]
I get the sense that Marsha disparages "science" as part of a larger 
criticizing of both "intellect" and "society" in the face of 
immediate, personal experience, and on that note I have much sympathy 
for her position. Platt, of course, is simply beating the 
anti-intellectual drums of right-wing ideology. Mark I feel is 
somehow personally slighted by Pirsig's "anti-theistic" comment and 
is trying to validate theism within this context, and is simply 
following the same path as other pissed-off theists before him. And 
now that I've psycho-analyzed them, I think its time for an ale.

[Krimel]
While we are psychoanalyzing, I would say Marsha is just confused, Platt
thinks that being anti-intellectual (read, intentionally stupid) is a
virtue. Mark seems to me to be someone who has reached a stage in his
professional career where he needs to reexamine the underlying assumptions
he has been taking for granted. I suspect that he sees people around him
acting blindly on these assumptions and he has begun to find this
disturbing. I would say that if you were going to pick a set of assumptions
blindly you could do way worse that science. But I don't think he quite gets
that not everyone who proceeds from those assumptions does so blindly.