[MD] Metaphysics

[markhsmit]

Marsha,

I see now.  My tactic is more "how do you know something
is true if you only read it".  Yes, science is a faith, which means
that if you do not question it, you are a true believer.  While
there is nothing wrong with this if used in a kind and altruistic
way, it is dangerous when one tries to convert others.

Unquestioned belief in science allows for the manipulation
of the masses.  This is something I am truly against since
I am for individualism.  I believe Quality can best be expressed
through the individual, and not through an institution.

This is the difference that I see between ZAMM and Lila.  ZAMM
is a story about a spiritual awakening, Lila is more about building
a church, (imo).  The more structure one puts up, the lower the
Quality.

Mark


Mark,

No sweet Mark, I think, like you, that science too often is accepted
without question. I asked a question. I asked Krimel if Einstein's 
general theory of relativity was science. No trap --- no trap, no cat,
and no mouse. 


Marsha








On Jan 17, 2010, at 10:45 PM, markhsmit wrote:

> Marsha,
> Oh, so you set a trap, eh. Cat and mouse? Catch Krimel out. 
> I guess we all learn in our own way.
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> No Mark, the subject was not the scientific method. The subject is deductive
> logic which Krimel said might have problems because of NonEuclidean geometry 
> such as Riemannian geometry, which Einstein used in the general theory of
> relativity. But he'd rather dance away with a Ouiji board. Fine. 
> 
> Marsha 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 17, 2010, at 11:27 AM, markhsmit wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>>> [Marsha]
>>> I think I remember that Einstein used Riemannian geometry in the general
>>> theory of relativity. 
>>> Is the general theory of relativy science? 
>>> 
>>> [Krimel]
>>> It is a work of theoretical physics.
>> 
>> Marsha:
>> I guess you are saying that theoretical physics, Einstein's general theory 
>> of relativity, is not science because it uses deductive logic which is not 
>> the basis of the scientific method. 
>> 
>> [Krimel]
>> Scientists employ any means they wish to construct a theory or a hypothesis.
>> They can use induction or deduction. They can see it in a dream or get it
>> from a Ouija board. But, the theory has to be testable, It needs to offer
>> some improvement in our understanding or our ability to make predictions.
>> That is, a new theory has to improve our ability to reduce uncertainty.
>> Einstein's theory offered predictions about certain observable events that
>> differed from Newton's theory.
>> [Mark]
>> Marsha,
>> What you seem to be asking is what is the scientific method. As Krimel suggests, one
>> of the results of the scientific method is predictability. In hindsight one could say
>> that if predictability results, a scientific method was used. This kind of explanation
>> is useful for illumination purposes. Another way to view it, is that the
>> scientific method is really just an elaborate extension of what we all do every day.
>> When you put your hand in the shower to see if it is warm enough, that is the
>> scientific method. The science is predicting that at a certain interval the water will
>> become warm enough to get in. To become more scientific about it, you would
>> time the interval that it takes to get warm with a watch. If you pay attention, then
>> you may notice that it takes longer if it is cold outside. So, you have to introduce
>> a new variable, that is the temperature outside. Also the rate of warming depends
>> on how fast the water is flowing. As the detail of these observations grow, the
>> predictability gets better. This is no different from other empirical studies, they
>> just get more and more complicated. Measurement, prediction, measurement
>> prediction, introduction of new variable, prediction, measurement, test for accuracy.
>> 
>> Those that are good at this, compile many of these variables in their heads without
>> knowing it and can take jumps. They can amalgamate seemingly unrelated observations
>> and bring them into the equation. These genius leaps mark a good scientist, and
>> are similar to genius leaps in art, sports, and, yes, even religion. Einstein was
>> able to do this with general relativity. However to do so he had to go against
>> conventional thinking. This is also the mark of a creative scientist, which
>> are periodically needed to bridge seemingly wrong data. Many of Einstein's
>> predictions took years to prove afterwards. He based much of his
>> science on math, which has a remarkable property of predicting what
>> we observe. The trick is trying to understand what the equations mean
>> in the real world, and whether they are useful. An infinite number of
>> equations can be formulated, only a few are useful. An intuitive
>> grasp of the right choice is needed as it gets more complicated.
>> 
>> So, there is nothing mysterious about the scientific method, you use
>> it all the time.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Mark
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> 
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