[MD] Freedom

[John Carl]

[Arlo]
> Let not your existential self be troubled, John, that's just a child story.
> The
> converse to chance is certainty, and a universe in which you were destined
> to
> appear is one in which there is no freedom, simply the machinations of a
> puppeteer.
>


Attributing my existence to either chance or certainty makes no sense to me
at all, Arlo.  Why would I?  What's in it for me?

I don't need to posit a cause for my existence, I'm here.  I know I'm here.
 Tomorrow I may be gone.  Yesterday I was a completely different being who
now is dead to me.  For right now, I'm here and I don't see any reason to
worry my head over what exactly stuck me here, if anything.  I know that's a
problem for you, one you need a solution for, but it's not for me.  I don't
really care one way or the other what your concept of history, my concept of
history, or history in truth, if there is such a thing.  It's all
meaningless because it's all in the past.

I should say, meaningless except to the extent we see reason to grant
meaning.  So far you haven't offered me any reasons to embrace chance, only
your own.

Same thing with constructions of self manipulated by the big puppeter, the
great strombolis of either cause and effect cosmos , or universal mind, or
brahma, or Yaweh or my way.   I don't believe any of those because I believe
in free will because it makes pragmatic sense to me to do so.



> The way I see it, "chance" gives our existence amazement. You were never
> destined to be here, your existence was never certain, but you have it, so
> toss
> back an ale in celebre!
>

I got no problem with ale, but overcoming randomness with dumb luck doesn't
seem to me cause for boasting.



>
> I mean, would you really be happy thinking the entirety of the cosmos was
> orchestrated just to produce *you*?


That seems a weird thought to me, and most unhelpful so no, I wouldn't be
happy thinking that.  I'd keep looking over my shoulder wondering if I was
doing a good enough job to justify all the expense.  It'd freak me out,
quite frankly.

Really, you shouldn't have.

I mean really.





> It may masturbate your ego a bit, this is
> Platt's addiction, but its ultimately unfulfilling, like sex with a
> prostitute-
> that's a pretty orchestrated "certain" affair, but with a soulmate whom you
> stumbled upon by chance! now that's much more fulfilling. So let Platt have
> his
> little prostitute, it satiates some void in him, in the meantime, enjoy
> your
> chanced upon soulmate.
>
>
well that's a weird metaphor for whatever point you were trying to make, but
like I always say, if it pleases you to gloat over the stolen pleasures
plucked from the pit of entropic chaos, enjoy.



> [Krimel]
> Your existence is nothing but the outcome of lots and lots of random
> events.
>


My existence is everything to me.  It means a lot more to me than whatever
process produced me does.  What makes sense about seeing this any other way
than what I say?






> A
> particular sperm fertilized a particular egg at a particular place at a
> particular time. If any of those particulars had been minutely different,
> right
> down to the quantum level, you would be someone else.
>
>
woulda, coulda, shoulda, has to be the most inane philosophical formulation
I've ever heard.  I thought you were an empiricist, Krimel.  Let's deal with
what is, and leave the fantasies to Disney.



> [Arlo]
> And this is why our existence is so magnificent! Why we should savor each
> and
> every day, every meal, every ale, every kiss, every hug, every fleeting
> moment
> is precious *because* of chance.


Have another Ale, Arlo.  You're starting to wax all poetic.






>
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
>