[MD] Re Proposed solution to SOL/Intellectual level

[skutvik at online.no]

Hi  John.

20 Jan. u wrote:

Bo before: 
> > Over to business. Pirsig is lost when called upon to define the
> > 4th.level,

John: 
> Yeah, him and about most of western civilization...

I said "when called upon.."  When he writes freely the correct S/O-
intellect emerges. What the Western civilization (SOM) means by the 
term "intellect is thinking in general.    

> I've been thinking about this a great deal because of the confluence of
> two rivers of thinking - One, was Magnus's refutation of levels being
> top driven because you'd need something beyond the 4th...... 

Any static level is  the result of a dynamic flight AWAY from the 
former. Whether this is "top driven" or not?          
 
> And Scott Peck's observation that the 4th stage of development in man,
> the "mystic" level he called it, was undefined.  

 Scott Peck's "stage theory I haven't heard about, but if it doesn't 
correspond to the MOQ I don't care much what he says about his 4th. 
stage. MOQ's "intellectual level" is STATIC and therefore supposed to 
be definable and the only definition that holds water is the S/O one. 
The "mind"-intellect on the other hand that so many subscribes to will 
of course be limitless, dynamic, mystic ... anything . This is the woolly 
Zen mess that Pirsig for some inexplicable reason has inflicted on his 
splendid achievement.   

> The point is, you can't envision any sort of upper limit because each
> objectification of reality, higher quality than the last, points to
> more. 

That's true and may be valid for Peck's and is the result of the said 
fallacious "mind-intellect", but not for MOQ's 4th STATIC level. Why 
anyone sees this as a solution of anything is beyond me.  

> That leads to the idea for me in MoQ terms, that the upper limit of
> intellectual formulation is indefinable.

Well, then I count you among the other anti-moqists of this site. 

> Royce is really helping too with his logical system which takes a
> convergent, infinite series and make a higher order leap to "see" in
> the same way we all see that 1.999999999999 is actually two. And how
> does this all tie in to DQ and it's sq formulations?

I try my best to tune in on your wavelength, but it's impossible to 
fathom what this is supposed to solve. 

> DQ is the undefinable upper register of the 4th level intellectual
> process, deduced from where the series is headed. 

The MOQ is out of SOM and in that process the SOM is made into its 
4th. level. Another thing, the MOQ is the DQ/SQ configuration, DQ is 
nothing (literally) in itself. Still another thing, this" MOQ-out-of-SOM" 
tenet creates a level-like relationship between the intellectual level and 
the MOQ and as is the rule here the upper shies its origin, so what the 
MOQ is NOT is intellectual. 

Bodvar