[MD] Platt's Pure Critique of Pantheism

[John Carl]

Mary,


>   The great thing about writing is how it forces you
> to focus your thoughts, and sometimes what you start out writing about
> turns
> into something different, so you start again, but then you see that's not
> right either, so...
>


I agree and especially when writing is done to communicate - as opposed to
keeping a diary or something.  It is the task of interpretation that feels
the most dynamic to me.


This subject, I think, goes right to the heart of everything we've been
> debating about with the MoQ lately.  That's too much stuff to put in one
> post, though, so I'll focus on one thing.  Why do I lie to the
> fundamentalists and why do I think it's ok to do that?
>

Or rather, upon what basis of morality do you weigh the rightness or
wrongness of lying?  Is it all just what you feel with no basis?


  Now I'm just the "objective
> anthropologist" when it comes to these things, so I could be totally wrong,
> but when your church repeatedly hammers you with "shoulds" and "oughts" and
> makes blanket condemning remarks about others from the pulpit every Sunday,
> it's not religion anymore.  It's something else.
>
>
 I disagree with your assessment that religion is not  "when your church
repeatedly hammers you with "shoulds" and "oughts" and makes blanket
condemning remarks about others from the pulpit every Sunday".  All my
empirical experience of 50 years refutes you entirely.

Religion is exactly that and little else!  The roots of the word are
Reli-gere, a binding-together, group formation in order to castigate
outsiders, that's what religion is.  That's what religion does.

I know that's bad, because I hold a fundamental value beyond the religious
formulations of priests and rabbis.  Why do you think it's bad?

And concurrently, why do you feel, lying is wrong.  As an objective
anthropologist, you ought to simply value the pragmatic results you achieve
when you bat your eyelashes and respond, "oh yes,
jesusismylordandsaviouramen" and go on your merry way without a qualm.

Its almost as if, you've absorbed the catholic guilt, but cast off the
catholic religion, which is crazy because the worst part of the religion is
the guilt!

It makes as little sense to me as my avowedly hedonistic Uncle Bob getting
his panties in a twist over Robert Plant's bulging trouser pose.  Rigelian
morality, I term it, to those who get MoQ terminology.


Thanks for replying Mary,

John





> Mary
>
> - The most important thing you will ever make is a realization.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of John Carl
> Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 3:38 PM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Platt's Pure Critique of Pantheism
>
> Hi Mary,
>
> I'm interested in your question,
>
> > When you live down here you quickly learn to cater to religious people.
>  You
> > sort of pander like a sycophant.  It's the safest way.  I've been prayed
> > over, invited to "pack the pew" night, looked at askance, and maligned at
> > various times over the years enough to know it's best just to not bring
> it
> > up at all, and if you get backed into a corner, just smile sweetly and
> lie,
> > lie, lie your way out of it.  Why is this so?
> >
>
>
> one of my favorite questions, why.  But I'm not sure in this case
> which "why" you are seeking.
>
> Why do they invite you and seek group conformity  so hard?  That's not
> hard to understand, it's a common enough phenomena in group formation,
> the attempt to convert the outsider to "the way".  There's a
> self-perpetuating system to social groups that's easy to comprehend in
> an intellectual way.  Woo hoo!  Intellect can be such fun!
>
> Or do you wonder why you react the way you do?  Deflecting rather than
> confronting or trying to convert them to your view, even though they
> are in the majority?
>
> Straighten that out for me and I'll do my best to answer your query.
>
> I'm sort of curious as to how you notice  lying.  Does it bother you
> to lie?  Do you see morality as existing separate from religion and
> how do you define for yourself what is good and not good?
>
> In my family I have this one uncle who makes a big deal about being an
> atheist.  When I was a teenager, I sent his daughter, my cousin Beth a
> poster of Robert Plant that I bought at a Led Zeppelin concert and he
> threw it away!  I was highly offended.  I wondered where an atheist
> gets off all moralistic?
>
> Maybe because they recognize that without values life would be
> dangerously chaotic and so those he "feels" are important are all the
> more fundamental to his ego.
>
> I know he feels it incumbent to send my mom, his sister, links and
> articles about the logic and benefit of atheism.  I'm pretty sure she
> sends him links and articles about the logic and benefit of
> Christianity.  So they dialogue this way.  This morning, I stopped by
> her house and she mentioned uncle Bob, and that she'd gotten so fed up
> with Bob's needling and hurtful rejection of her God, that she prayed
> for permission to just give up on him.  That is, unless the Lord sent
> her a clear sign, she'd just have nothing to do with him anymore.  As
> soon as she got up off the floor the phone rang and it was her brother
> Bob calling who said, Hey sis, I just wanted to call and let you know
> how much I love you.
>
> My ma slammed the phone down and cursed, Damn, now i'm gonna have to
> put up with that atheist son of bitch forever, because of God.
>
> So I think in the main, it's a good idea to stay an atheist because
> God makes you do stuff you really don't want to do.
>
> Take care,
>
> John
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