[MD] The difference between a Monet and a finger painting

[Ian Glendinning]

Krim, Ant, John,

I know Ant is already dialoguing with you Krim on evolutionary
biologists - but can I just say Dawkins and Gould are not leaders of
the pack when it comes to understanding the "as if" teleology at play.
I actually agree with Ant here. More enlightened evolutionary
psychologists and cosmologists ARE taking notice of the progressive
layered thinking inherhent in the Pirsigian model (even if Pirsig is
not acknowledged in this, because the ideas arise independently.) The
goal is a better understood world-view - I think Pirsig has had enough
of celebrity.

"Unfortunate" is history.
We can also talk about "teleology" as a subject .... but must dash.
Ian

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 8:53 PM, Krimel <Krimel at krimel.com> wrote:
> Ant,
> Would you agree that it is unfortunate that the MoQ excludes itself from
> mainstream evolutionary thinking as a result of Pirsig's lack of contact
> with say, Gould, Wilson or Dawkins? Doesn't his teleological view and his
> insistence on a "direction" for evolution cripple progress on the MoQ? Would
> you care to comment on his failure to correct his mistakes in the Baggini
> interview?
> Krimel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ant McWatt [mailto:antmcwatt at hotmail.co.uk]
> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 2:43 PM
> To: moq discuss
> Subject: Re: [MD] The difference between a Monet and a finger painting
>
>
> Ian Glendinning stated January 19th 2010:
>
>> I'm reading Brian Boyd "On the Origin of Stories" at the moment, most
>> of which so far is on the history of arts generally from a natural
>> evolutionary perspective.
>
>
> Ant McWatt says:
>
> Ian,
>
> That's an interesting reference especially with its mention of Homer's
> "Odyssey".  For anyone else interested here is part of the publisher's
> summary:
>
>
> On the Origin of Stories
>
> Evolution,Cognition, and Fiction
>
>
> Brian Boyd
>
> A century and a half after the publication of Origin of Species,
> evolutionary
> thinking has expanded beyond the field of biology to include virtually all
> human-related subjects—anthropology, archeology, psychology, economics,
> religion, morality, politics, culture, and art. Now a distinguished scholar
> offers the first comprehensive account of the evolutionary origins of art
> and
> storytelling. Brian Boyd explains why we tell stories, how our minds are
> shaped
> to understand them, and what difference an evolutionary understanding of
> human
> nature makes to stories we love...
>
> After considering art as adaptation, Boyd examines Homer’s Odyssey and Dr.
> Seuss’s
> Horton Hears a Who! demonstrating how an evolutionary lens can offer new
> understanding and appreciation of specific works. What triggers our
> emotional
> engagement with these works? What patterns facilitate our responses? The
> need to
> hold an audience’s attention, Boyd underscores, is the fundamental problem
> facing
> all storytellers. Enduring artists arrive at solutions that appeal to
> cognitive
> universals: an insight out of step with contemporary criticism, which
> obscures
> both the individual and universal.
>
> http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/BOYORI.html
>
>
>
> .
>
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