[MD] The difference between a Monet and a finger painting

[Ham Priday]

Hi Mark --


On 1/26 at 8:38PM, you said to Krimel:


> I may be wrong, but I believe Pirsig would answer the question
> of "why survive?" by saying "because those are the demands of
> Quality".

I'm afraid that's how he would have to answer it.  And such an answer 
reduces human sensibility to a tail wagged by Quality.  The absurdity of 
this convoluted ontology seems to have escaped Krimel.  If Quality (Value) 
"evolves to goodness" for its own sake, morality is fixed by Nature and man 
is only an anomalous "pattern" in the evolutionary process.  This makes the 
individual life an automaton of the Source and denies meaning or purpose for 
the life experience.

For the life of me, I fail to see how a philosophy that rejects the 
subjective agent can offer spiritual or moral guidance to mankind.  The best 
moral axiom that can be drawn from the MoQ is "some things are better than 
others".  Since, in the last analysis, Quality's progression to Goodness is 
automatic, the implied "directive" of a self-serving universe would seem to 
be simply: "Go with the flow."  Why do Pirsigians continue to parse the 
"levels" of Quality for a more meaningful answer when no other analysis is 
possible?

--Ham

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[Krimel]
I don't think that "satisfaction" is a criterion for truth. It is a happy
coincidence when knowledge makes us happy but I fear that often it is just a
sign that we are on the wrong path. I think it is true that I will die one
day but I don't find that terribly satisfying. If all you want is beliefs
that make you happy why not drop the pretext and take up painting?

Science may not be the only path to truth or knowledge but I do think that
other paths are in many ways subservient to science. One can't seriously
advance a philosophy that claims that the earth is only 10,000 years old.
Although that is the position advanced by the ICR and taught to students at
private Christian schools. I for one think inflicting these ideas on
children is a form of child abuse.