[MD] Intellect's Symposium

[MarshaV]

Hi David,

Yes, the Brian Wynne episode was especially enlightening, but 
they were all excellent.  This series was eye-opening and alarming, 
but that these questions and investigations are being considered 
helped me with a little optimism.  I feel very fortunate that I exposed to 
these programs, and I worry for all that have missed them.  

http://www.cbc.ca/ideas/features/science/index.html#episode10     


Marsha  
 
 
 
 

On Jan 30, 2010, at 3:42 PM, David Thomas wrote:

> All,
> 
> Continuing on the trail of the intellect through the social world:
> 
> At this point this whole thread turns in my mind into a comic/tragic
> reality/farce. RMP spends two books tracing the history of the "Church of
> Reason" criticizing the ongoing consequences of using subject and object as
> the fundamental underlying premise Western philosophy and science. He
> proposed rejecting it and many still cling to it.
> I cannot see how anyone can reject the claim that human knowledge is not
> somehow tied up in the workings of the human brain, based on individual
> intelligence, experience, thinking about those experiences, and entering
> into conversations with other about them.
> 
> I truly don't know whether to laugh or cry that after 15 years it is still
> the case with many still are unable or unwilling to accept RMP's rejection
> of SO premise or accept the most basic premise that experience is a basis
> for knowledge. Yet whole heartedly accept his quality premise which is
> predicated of acceptance of these claims.
> 
> Then someone suggested to me that those most strongly attracted to Pirsig's
> work identify personally with his saga  and view him as this ruggedly
> individualist  "walking wounded" intellectual hero that society has ground
> down and thwarted at every turn. Whispering to themselves in effect, "Yea
> just like me!" Unfortunately our claims are true. And maybe in part RMP's
> are too. But for entirely different reasons. We probably just don't have the
> intellectual power and background in the first place necessary to tackle
> these issues on our own.
> 
> Not that society can be held completely blameless. The whole history (myth
> in reality) of philosophy and science has been portrayed as the consequences
> of the thoughts of super smart named individuals like Socrates, Plato, on
> and on. And RMP bought into that myth pure and simple. Had he early on been
> to integrate himself into an appropriate group his contributions would
> probably been earlier and greater.
> 
> What got me thinking this way was when Krimel (I think) raised the issue of
> RMP's apparent misunderstanding or lack of consideration in Lila with more
> recently progress in science particularly evolutionary sciences. While
> recently listening to the radio broadcasts that Marsha posted I heard the
> term "Science Wars" for the first time. My ignorance of them, while not
> excusable, might be understood given my nearly complete day to day focus on
> the practical matter of building. Given Pirsig's focus, however, that they
> should have started in 1962 with the publishing of Thomas Kuhn's, "The
> Structure of Scientific Revolutions" and raged on during the whole time he
> was writing both his books with no mention is an indication IMHO of his
> isolation from the reality of what was going on in the fields he was talking
> about while researching and writing about them, particularly Lila.
> 
> Why? Because the "Science Wars" were about the very same issues that Pirsig
> was trying to confront. Questions like "Do values that influence science?,
> "If so which ones and how?", "Is science and individual or group activity?"
> "Is theory or experiment more important?" All these and more raised for the
> first time in a serious way. But we read no mention of this in Lila.
> 
> Conclusions or insights of these wars? Well they are still going on, but it
> is becoming clearer and clearer that all scientific and philosophical
> knowledge is filtered, warped, shaped, informed by social values and there
> is in fact not some pure form of objective, valueless, intellectual truth
> the S/O project supposed. That Good is as good as you get.
> 
> All the broadcasts are good and help expand RMP's insights but this one:
> Episode 10 - Brian Wynne
> http://www.cbc.ca/ideas/features/science/index.html#episode1
> Best covers the history of the "Science Wars" IMHO.
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
>> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of KAYE
>> PALM-LEIS Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 1:20 PM To:
>> moq_discuss at moqtalk.org Subject: Re: [MD] Intellect's Symposium
> 
> 
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