[MD] Reading & Incomprehension

[Krimel]

[Krimel]:
> I appreciate the effort to stay focused on the central issues.
> Clearly this is one of them. You are not just saying that division
> is necessary but that a particular kind of division is necessary.
> Maybe it is a translation problem. Why do you think this is
> "required"? 

[Bo]
I think it is required because Reality = X, = Tao, = Green Cheese is 
good for nothing. However I agree 100% with Reality = Dynamic and 
Static Quality. 

[Krimel]
That is hardly a response. It doesn't even show the slightest indication
that you even understand the nature of the problem. The question was why,
not what. But let's start back in kindergarten: why do you think this
division or any such division is required? Do you even see the difference
between Quality=Reality and "Quality"="Reality"?
  
[Bo]
What gives the MOQ its explanatory power is the point of its highest - 
static level being the previous SOM, 

[Krimel]
This explains nothing. The Greek distinction between continuous and
discontinuous, the metaphysical argument between Heraclitus and Parmenides
predates SOM and seems more or less identical to SQ/DQ. But they all along
with the giant dung beetle lie confortablly together with the MoQ on the
intellectual level.

[Bo]  
thus there is no theoretical, abstract, conceptual ... whatever in the MOQ, 

[Krimel]
Right the MoQ is theoretical, abstract, conceptual ... and whatever.


[Bo]
all this is confined inside its 4th level. 

[Krimel]
Exactly

[Bo]
It also has a biological level and says that intelligence 
entered with brain, but does not consider itself as an intelligence (in 
the mind sense) product. 

[Krimel]
This anthropomorphic language of yours is inappropriate and misleading.
Levels don't say anything and the MoQ cannot "consider". It is a product of
the mind to be considered.

[Bo] 
Language is the ocean in which we swim so all efforts to introduce
language is futile.  

[Krimel]
WTF, without language there would be nothing to introduce and not way to
introduce it. Try to engage your mind here, Bo.

[Bo]
All this about each person a subjective island who may or may not 
communicate across the waters by language is intellect's (SOM's) 
business so I leave it. I admire your intellectual - conventional - 
knowledge, but cut it short, we are here to discuss the MOQ  

[Krimel]
As I pointed out communication of emotion is built in and does not require
language. Language is just term we use to apply to communication system that
require learning and consensus in order to work. It includes speech,
gestures smoke signals, trail markers and smoke signal.

>[Krimel]
> If you look backwards in time you see all those ancient
> civilizations.

[Bo]
However, speaking about looking backwards in time It's a fact that 
ZAMM looked back on the past as a paradise lost before the big bad 
SOM "carved" its holistic existence asunder. And had Pirsig started 
LILA by "translating" ZAMM in the light of the MOQ he would have 
been forced to make the Aretê past = the social era and SOM = the 
intellectual, but he chose to leave these two books as separate 
universes and the MOQ a mess.    

[Krimel]
I don't see the context or relevance of this to this discussion. There is no
social era or intellectual era. Social considerations are no less important
today than in the past. See what kind of reaction us get is you fart in and
elevator. Intellectual consideration were no less important in the past.
Explaining to your children that the earth was created by a giant dung
beetle who rolls a fiery ball of its shit across the sky during the course
of every day is an intellectual explanation. It may serve a social function
but so does talking about the big bang and black holes. 

[Bo]
The one good opening of LILA about "you can't avoid metaphysics" 
makes nil and void of this carving argument, wherever anthropologists 
went people had a "metaphysics" (always dualist by the way), but not 
in the sense of the tribe elder saying; "Bwana, this is our metaphysics", 
they neither knew any "reality" or "existence" or "experience", this is 
SOM having lodged so deep that we take its S/O (making theories 
about reality) for granted. 

[Krimel]
It is factually incorrect to say that all early metaphysics was dualistic.
Giant dung beetlism wasn't, neither was Taoism isn't, neither is Judiasm,
neither is Buddhism, neither were the myriad of cultures who pointed to
earth, wind, fire and water. Ancient and tribal people were far more
creative in there metaphysical story telling than you imagine. How foolish
are you to say that  Pharaoh Akhnaten, the world's first monotheist, had no
reality, no sense of his own existence, no experience or no metaphysics.
That is shear speculation at best and just plain ignorant at worst. I give
you a shaky edge toward the former for the moment but the ice is very thin.

[Bo]
I had high hopes for you Krimel but you too proved to a be a dud. A 
moq dud that is, plenty smart otherwise.  

[Krimel]
Uh, thanks I guess but I have to say that so far my original assessment of
the  nature of SOL's unassailability stands.