[MD] Transhumanism

[Krimel]

Krimel reported:
Another dude talked about the metaphysical reasons that you will not be able
to upload your consciousness into a computer. I found this depressing but
think I know how to get around the problem. ...  Despite what you may have
heard from dmb narrow AI is already passé. There are a couple of different
approaches being taken in AGI but they would ultimately lead to an AI
capable of passing the Turing test.


dmb says:
The dude with metaphysical reasons depressed you? Did he and I dash your
dreams of someday uploading yourself? Of having a robot girlfriend? I think
you have a fetish for technology. Gadgets are fun but let's not worship our
own tools, eh?

[Krimel]
Yeah, actually I would gladly upload and in fact am working on it to the
extent that I can. What depressed me is that I agreed with his argument.
It's not so much that I have a technology fetish. I mean with lots and lots
of technology I have been a late adopter. For example, I have only have a
cell phone for about four years. I didn't get a CD player until about the
time MP3s first appeared. But I do think that technology is the driving
force behind a great many cultural trends in every area of modern life
including philosophy and I don't think being ignorant about how it works is
"cool". 
 
Krimel said:
The MoQ if it is relevant at all ought to have something to say or some way
to deal with cyborgs and chimera, nanotech and 3D printing. 

dmb says:
ZAMM is all about our relationship to technology and science but it's fairly
ridiculous to expect Pirsig to operate on that level of detail. 

[Krimel]
I don't. But I do expect metaphysical ideas to be scalable without being
excessively lossy. (See what I mean about keeping up with techtalk? Lots of
useful ideas there. Look them up.) His thoughts on technology in Lila seem
to be on track for the most part, he just doesn't take them far enough. 

[dmb]
And sadly, most people are only dazzled by the kinds of technology that
serve the interests of advertisers. 

[Krimel]
Sadly, some people only know about the technology they hear about from
advertisers. Has the invention of DVDs finally stopped your VCR from
blinking the time at you, Dave?

[dmb]
If nano-technology has the potential for medical miracles that it seems to,
it would be crime not to pursue it. But that's the kind of question we
should think about. What good is it? What purpose does it serve? What risk
does it pose? Ask these questions about your robot girlfriend. 

[Krimel]
Those are questions I asked my daughter who is actually doing genetic
research. Her thought was, we already have biological means to do most of
what this particular group of nano-tech evangelists were promoting. She
seemed to think that as engineers they were more concerned with playing with
their toys than saving lives and that they had no moral commitment to a
better world at all. But what does she know?

[dmb]
"Can we?" and "should we?" are two different questions. 

[Krimel]
Surely by now you ought to know that if we can, we will, to hell with what
we ought.

[dmb]
I guess I'd be more interested in developing natural intelligence more than
artificial intelligence. I even suspect that we NEED to learn more about the
former before we can even think about doing the latter. 

[Krimel]
Since we are learning so much more about the former and at a log rhythmic
pace, one would think you would try to keep up instead of whining about SOM
every time someone says something you don't understand. It has been really
interesting reading these recent thoughts of yours Dave. It is almost like
having a time machine and going backwards several years and hearing myself.
You should have heard yourself then.

[dmb]
That's probably what the depressing dude said, eh?

[Krimel]
Not at all, what he said was that it is wrong to claim that there is no
different between a copy and an original. They are two different things.
That is a bit like what so many people have tried to tell Bo about reality
and "reality".