[MD] big bang

[Krimel]

[Adrie]
well, Krimel, thanks for understanding that chaos is a pattern of maximum
diffusion.

[Krimel]
Except that that is exactly what I said it wasn't.

[Adrie]
Chaos is indeed the mother of all patterns.
It was all ther before the big-bang , Krimel, as chaos before the big-bang
is the representation

[Krimel]
Physics is not my specialty but unless I missed something recent I don't
think this is the way physicists understand this problem at all.

[Adrie]
of ENERGY,.......AND since Einstein E= mc2, not only all ENERGY but all MASS
was present before the moment of the big bang

[Krimel]
Since there is at present no conceivable way to test this I believe most
physicists would classify this kind of talk the way they classified string
theory, as metaphysics.

[Adrie]
seriously Krimel, probably you have been reading about the entropic
principle,the entropical engine is only possible to inflate
or deflate the universe, if and when all energy and mass (equal) were there
all the time.
so the entropic inflation/deflation is a recurrent pattern, it never ends in
Time.

[Krimel]
In a word, No. entropy is one of the fundamental laws of thermodynamics. It
is the first non-classical, that is not revisable in time, theories in
physics. Even if the universe as you describe it oscillates between bangs
and crunches. Entropy mean that something will be lost during each
oscillation until it just evaporates.

[Adrie]
Time , Krimel, was always there , even before the big bang, and if it was
not you are in fact living in a static universe, or so to speak
the big bang happened in a halted engine, and than you are living in a
metaphysikal universe.

[Krimel]
Time and Space are the same thing. And both came into being at the Big Bang.
There is talk about big bang bubbles and so forth but although interesting
no one claims it is testable. But it is confusing as you demonstrate. 

[Adrie]
so maximum diffusion, = just before the big bang, containing all energy and
mass.

[Krimel]
Just to play along with your line of thinking for a moment here. The moment
"before" the Big Bang would be a period of maximum concentration not
diffusion. 

[Adrie]
I do not try to outsmart you ,krimel , i think you are very intelligent , i
think for the story on Pirsig you can outsmart me.

[Krimel]
Thanks but I suspect that is a minority opinion.

[Adrie}
but you aint on physiks.

[Krimel]
The feeling is mutual.

[Adrie]
But as i can see some interest for physiks , and entropy, try to read some
issue's on c/p violation, very interesting for you.
its going back to the earlyest universe in time.

[Krimel]
My interest in physics is mostly so I can understand Commander Data in STNG.
I want to have a vague idea of what Geordi is doing when he recalibrates the
deflector array and why anyone would want to generate a tachyon pulse. 

But mostly I need a smattering of physics to help me spot crazy
philosophical arguments. You know, like the first person in a discussion who
brings up the Nazis has lost. I would add that his only hope of recovering
is if his opponent counters with a response rooted in quantum mechanics.