[MD] Reading & Comprehension

[skutvik at online.no]

Mary and DMB (Krimel get lost)

20 June.

Mary had said:
> Almost a week and no response.  I would like you, the thesis writer,
> to tell me what the difference is between the Intellectual Level and
> the Social. Save me from being 'victimized' by Bo.

dmb says:
> Lucky me. I've returned from a family vacation to find that I get to
> play the hero who rescues the damsel in distress. And it looks like
> Mary could use some help too. Pirsig's "incoherent account" of the
> difference between the social and intellectual levels is simply a
> modified version of an ancient and well known distinction. Mythos and
> Logos, myth and logic, religion and science, tradition and philosophy. 

Mary asks about the difference between the intellectual and social 
levels ("Pirsig's incoherent account" is Krimel's usual ....) for the 
obvious reason to smoke out the faulty "mind-intellect" in favor of the 
true S/O-intellect and you - Dave - point to mythos (=social) and logos 
(=intellect) plus religion and science and boy, this is a different tune. 

> I like Pirsig's initial reaction to the question of what intellect is.
> Basically, he said, "you've read a book on philosophy and you don't
> know what intellect is?" C,mon, you guys. Look it up. The Standford
> encyclopedia will probably give you dozens of hits for mythos and logos
> and google will get you tens of thousands of hits.

My jaw hang slack from asking and pointed to "What does the term 
'intellect' mean" issue. My dictionary says "the power of mind to 
distinguish between reason and emotion". That reason = objectivity 
while emotion = subjectivity  is plain, hence INTELLECT = (the value 
of distinguishing between)  S and O. 

But then the "power of mind" snag. All dictionaries are somish where 
things goes on in minds, ergo does it not matter one iota what the  
definitions are, intellect is something that takes place on the mental 
plane. And - phew - Pirsig forgets that he has created a metaphysics 
that rejects SOM's mind and matter and accepts this most obvious 
somish hook, bait and line.        

> The political conflicts of the 20th century illustrate the distinction
> between social and intellectual values. There is an endless supply of
> material to supplement Pirsig's examples.

Yes, right you are and what was WW2 about?  Nazism was the social 
values last stand in the Western World and its emphasis on valor, 
honor, duty, all indicates social values - as cut from the Homeric 
Heroes attitude - or from Al Qaida's program. All this is Intellect deems 
subjective, emotional and what hinders the clear objectivity that all 
intellectual patterns are built on.        

> You could also get at the distinction by studying myths as such.
> Pirsig recommends Joseph Campbell's four volume set, "The Masks of
> God". That one work constitutes about 2000 pages of explanation as to
> the nature of the social level. Just about anything by Campbell would
> help.

Yes, this was the great issue when you entered this discussion and if 
the Mythological Reality corresponds to the social then intellectual 
MUST correspond to SOM, after all this is just what ZAMM claims. I 
really wonder why denying these crying-to-heaven proofs - that you 
yourself provide. If you only would tell me THAT? 

> C'mon, Krimel. Untie yourself and get up off of the railroad tracks.
> Your complaint is predicated on some kind of intellectual laziness. It
> amounts to a complaint that Pirsig didn't take the time to explain
> things that you should already know - or at least be able and willing
> to find out. That goes for you too, Mary. Pirsig did not invent this
> distinction. There are lots of different opinions about the relations
> between mythos and logos but if you look around I think you'll see how
> the two sides differ, how they conflict and where to draw the line
> between them.

Why bother with this Krimel figure who has no interest in the MOQ? 
Untie yourself from the faulty mind-intellect that in fact has been 
abolished by Pirsig - and just now abolished by you -  but still sticks 
like glue. And spare Mary from your admonishing , she has stood up 
for the correct S/O-intellect for a long time now.

Bodvar.