[MD] DQ: to define or undefine

[Krimel]

Dan said: "And Dynamic Quality defined is
static quality. But static quality defined is not Dynamic Quality."

Krim said: "What that means is that DQ is NOT undefinable. DQ is just the
opposite of SQ. SQ is patterns that don't change and DQ is patterns that do
change."

[Ian]
No, No, No.

Opposites yes, but opposites in nature too.

Change / Not change is a matter of degree - timescale.

[Krimel]
Black / White is a matter of degree
Male / Female is a matter of degree
+ /- is a matter of degree
Certainty / Uncertainty are matters of degree
Chaos / Order are matters of degree

That degree is the union of opposites. That degree is the undefined that
leads us to notice the relationship.

Timescale is quite right though time scale is critical to the levels Pirsig
lays out. Each of his level reflects different time scales that produce
different modes for the workings of DQ and SQ; change and stasis. 

[Ian]
DQ is the immediate, "in the moment" change potential. After that
things get more static, defined, fossilised.

[Krimel]
SQ is equally here in the moment providing the background against which we
measure or perceive DQ.

[Ian]
So, Dan's statement is good. It just needs a little care in reading it.

"Dynamic Quality Defined is static quality" is exactly right.

By Dynamic Quality Defined is NOT Dynamic Quality.

[Krimel]
This careful reading seem to require reordering and substitution and yields
just another battered permutation of the confusion.

[Ian]
It is NOT "the definition of DQ" that DQ would recognise - it is a
static intellectual concept. ie "the definition of DQ" is a static
pattern, whereas DQ is DQ.

[Krimel]
But it is a "definition of DQ" that Quality could easily recognize.
Unconceptualized Quality becomes conceptualized as DQ and SQ. These are two
concepts that help us apprehend Quality.

[Ian]
Definition is the static part, the intellectual part, not the quality
itself.

[Krimel]
DQ is equally conceptual and not Quality itself.
Remember:
Concepts are static and discrete.
Percepts are dynamic and continuous.

Concepts are derived from percepts.

[Ian]
This is only a recurring problem, because people do not believe
(really accept) that DQ is undefined, ie by definition ;-) That
circularity is GOOD, not a problem.

[Krimel]
And well they shouldn't. Quality is the undefined Tao. DQ and SQ are its
aspects. 
There is no need for circularity.