[MD] The Quality/MOQ meta-metaphysics

[MarshaV]

On Jun 27, 2010, at 12:48 PM, Andre Broersen wrote:

> Platt to Andre in response to Marsha's ignorance:
> 
> Yes, Andre. Let's see you demonstrate an intellectual pattern that isn't based
> on the subject/object division. I'm all tingly with anticipation.
> 
> Andre:
> Problem with this sort of thing coming from 'the Bo camp' is that
> nothing I, or for that matter Mr. Pirsig, Dan, dmb, Arlo, even Matt,
> John and Krimel says (and apologies to those I may have missed)
> say will be accepted.

Empty platitudes, but no evidence and no demonstration.  



> I suggest you take a long, very hard and critical look at the MOQ itself!

The undermining presumption being I do not understand it.  Sorry, but 
I am constantly considering the MoQ.  The fact is I understand it differently 
than you.  


> ...but I can hear your self-satisfying objections coming from a mile away.
> All of 'us' have at times tried to produce argument upon argument proving
> the fallacy of the SOL interpretation backed up with statements and quotes
> from Mr. Pirsig himself, James, Northrop, Anthony, Dewey you name it

Argument by authority without any accompanying evidence?   Baloney!  
And citing the SOL is a red-herring because I have never referenced the 
SOL because I do not fully understand it.   


> ...but these are dismissed as if they never existed. Mr. Pirsig has written 'nonsense',
> has 'lost nerve' has 'lost heart'(in other words he is a coward!). Bloody hell! How
> dare you!!!

This is not a coherent anything...  Seems like blathering.  I how dare I what?
I how dare think independently of your interpretations?  


> As I said in a previous post: you do not realise how smart Mr. Pirsig is.

RMP has not supported your statements.  He can easily write a post
stating that you, Andre, are his spokesman.



> He deserves our greatest respect ( yes Marsha, a social pattern of value is not out of place ...even on an 'intellectual' forum such as this!)but what I get from 'you lot' is nothing but contempt for the man. No Marsha ( I pick on you because you mentioned these as counter arguments in the past) he is not god, it is not papal bull, but there are limits to how far you can stretch the interpretation of the MOQ. Mr. Pirsig has made these very clear in the LC annotations.

What you are avoiding is:

Demonstrate an intellectual pattern that does not reify concepts, that does not 
create a self involved in analyzing such concepts, or does not represent the 
rules for such manipulation?  You cannot do it, because the minute you've 
begun you have divided and formed an object and an analyzing self.  


> 
> I once again refer to the letter Mr. Pirsig wrote to Dough Renselle, to be
> found in the archives.

If it is the letter written to Bo in September 2000, I have read it.  


> I'll stop taking you guys and girls seriously and wholeheartedly support
> Horse in giving Bodvar a yellow card!!!  

Do whatever pleases you.  Bo can defend his position without 
mentioning the SOL.  If you are allowed to state that you know 
RMP's MoQ correct interpretation, Bo should be allowed to state 
and defend the same sort of assumption.   

Or do you want to write a Papal Bull for the MoQ yourself?  


> Many of 'us' take a lot of time and energy to present Mr. Pirsig's views and
> insights as truthfully as we can. But to simply be whisked away and nullified
> in one short sentence is a very poor use of your intellectual patterns (as I
> understand we all possess)on this forum.

Many of us 'others' also take a lot of time and energy to present Mr. 
Pirsig's views and insights.   Whether my posts are a sentence or 
50 paragraphs does not negate the amount of time or energy I spend.
Maybe like dmb you want to call me immoral because I do not agree with 
you?  That's not a high quality attitude and only a weak attempt at social 
manipulation.   


> I will refrain from using the word 'shame'... instead I will simply refer to your
> attitude as very (SOL/SOM) blinkered... and it obstructs an understanding
> of the MOQ. ( jee whiz...Bodvar: the SOL=the MOQ!...where does he get it from!).

Use the word 'shame' if you like.  It just makes me laugh at you Mr. Preacherman.  
You are no one who I need, or should, consider an authority.   


Marsha

 
___