[MD] The Quality/MOQ meta-metaphysics

[John Carl]

Ron,

Ron:
> A very contradictory statement. First you assert that SOM does not
> recognize subjective opinion,
> it doesent exist, then..re assert  SOM splits the universe in two, equal
> halves.
>
> I understand SOM as defining the universe in terms of objective matter,
> even the subjective experience.
> Rendering subjective experience,as well, subjective and of little or no
> value. "Subjective" is
> a perjorative term used to dismiss thoughts or reasons not based on
> objective truth and physical explainations.
> On "fact". Not feelings emotions morals or value, objectivism.
>
>
John:

Yes, you've mentioned this before and I immediately attached to it.  I think
you pointed out previously "objects" already implies a subject perceiving
them, so "objectivism" is all that needs to be said about the metaphysical
world view.

As Royce calls it,  a view "no serious thinker holds for long".



>
> Ron:
> MoQ states that Value is experience, it is more empirical than objective
> truth.
> SOM states Value is subjective. Objective truth is self evident.
> Therefore a true blue SOMist would see the MoQ as a type of subjectivism.
>
>
John:

Right.  A guy like Rigel would denigrate the MoQ as turning everybody on to
"if it feels good, do it" only now with philosophical assertiveness.




> Ron:
>
>
> I know there are many times RMP refers to the dominance of scientific
> objectivism,
> as it pertains to western culture, American in particular, as the
> intellectual level.
> Simply because that is how popular cultural reference defines it as.
> Which is also part of the problem. But It is consistent with everything he
> states
> about objective truth being one of many kinds of intellectual value. While
> taking those parts as saying that objectivism IS the intellectual level,
> means
> ignoring the remainder of the work.



John:  Therein lies the  confusion, Ron, taking the common view as the
correct view.


According  to Pirsig, the  intellectual level took off in a new direction
and power with Plato.  Previously it had been of a more holistic
perspective, melding values and logic.  A particular pattern, SOM,  evolved
that has since dominated the level to the extent that now people mistake the
dominant pattern of the 4th level, to BE the entire level.


Tsk, tsk indeed.

John