[MD] Windmills and Intellectual Pots

[david buchanan]

Howdy Paul, Mati, Bo and all MOQers:

Paul said to Mati:
With respect to your ongoing support for SOL I believe I have shown that it 
is based on an idealist assumption, i.e, reality is a logical, coherent 
universe of thought.  Bo uses LILA's definition: "As long as you're inside a 
logical, coherent universe of thought you can't escape metaphysics." ...So 
from your two premises: (1) Metaphysics = a logical, coherent universe of 
thought (2) Reality = metaphysics. I can deduce that: Reality = a logical, 
coherent universe of thought.

dmb says:
I think Paul has indentified the one of the central problems with Bo's 
theory. Here is a pretty good example of Bo making this move...

Bo very recently said:
...the theory of gravity is a 4th level pattern all right, but science and 
knowledge rests on the
subject/object divide so it can't be "jettisoned" without existence dropping 
back to the third level (Dark Ages) and is why I am so exasperated with 
those who think intellect can be reformed to accommodate the MOQ. The S/O 
level must be kept clean and clear. The MOQ is the Quality Meta-reality that 
contains all levels and must necessarily be beyond - beyond intellect not 
the least.

dmb says:
Maybe it would clear things up if we look at the line that has inspired this 
idealist interpretation. "As long as you're inside a logical, coherent 
universe of thought you can't escape metaphysics." Looking at this line 
along side Bo's assertions that "the MOQ is the Quality Meta-reality" it 
occurs to me that he has taken the word "universe" a little too literally. 
As I understand the statement, it would express the same idea if the phrase 
"a coherent universe of thought" were replaced with "a coherent system of 
thought", "a coherent set of beliefs", "a logically consistant worldview", 
"an integrated web of understanding" or some such thing. I mean, the 
statement shouldn't be taken to mean that the universe or reality itself is 
made of thoughtsor that new thoughts alter reality. (Although new ideas or 
systems of thought can be said to add to one level of static reality and 
thereby serve a role in the evolution of the universe.)  If the statement is 
taken to simply mean that no thinking person can go through life without 
making assumptions about how the world works, whether we take the time to 
deliberately examine those assumptions or not, and that you gotta slice it 
up one way or another, then it becomes consistant with the other statements. 
The only one who doesn't do metaphysics hasn't been born yet, etc., etc. 
(You're old hats, so I'm just refering to some relevant quotes rather than 
repeat them in full.) I think the quote about how DQ is the paper upon which 
the MOQ is diagramed, the quote about the contradictory and degenerate 
nature of reducing reality to a metaphysics, the one about the relationship 
between the menu and the food, and lots of others are all consistant with a 
non-Bodvarian interpretation of the relationship between metaphysics and 
reality. To be honest, I'm sort of impressed at the amount of material one 
has to ignore or misread in order to maintain the view that equates reality 
with metaphysics.

I would also point out that Pirsig is clearly among those "who think 
intellect can be reformed to accommodate the MOQ." Not too long ago, Paul 
posted a quote that says exactly that...

"What's emerging from the pattern of my own life is the belief that the 
crisis is being caused by the inadequacy of existing forms of thought to 
cope with the situation.  It can't be solved by rational
means because the rationality itself is the source of the problem.  ...So I 
guess what I'm trying to
say is that the solution to the problem isn't that you abandon rationality 
but that you expand the nature of rationality so that it's capable of coming 
up with a solution." [ZMM, p171]

See, the MOQ is not beyond intellect, its just an expanded rationality, a 
broader "coherent universe of the thought". Its not THEE universe.

My buthcer explained this to me the other day when I asked him to provide a 
metaphysical justification for the price of his finer cuts. I was looking at 
the rib-eye steaks. After his explanation, he suggested that I marinate the 
steaks in molasses, red vinegar and olive oil over night in the 
refridgerator and was careful to point out that it usually takes about six 
years to achieve satori. If you don't have the patience for that sort of 
thing, he said, you can just marinate them at room temperature for a few 
hours. Then the room filled with his divine light, the coulds parted over 
his shop, a choir of angels began to sing and he ascended to the heavens. I 
was so glad I stayed long enough to witness this miraculous departure 
because most of the prices fell as soon as he was gone.

Thanks.
dmb

P.S. That butcher was a genius. I'd be happy if I never ate another 
un-marinated steak. It was THAT good. Sheer brilliance. (I also added a 
little garlic and ginger.)

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