[MD] Windmills and Intellectual Pots

[skutvik at online.no]

Paul, Mati and Moqtalk 

Preface 20 Dec. I see from today's post that Paul has added 
something about how my take of metaphysics differs from his, 
but this is hardly news.   

On 18 Dec. Mati said to Paul:

> You asked: 
> With respect to your ongoing support for SOL I believe I have shown
> that it is based on an idealist assumption, i.e, reality is a logical,
> coherent universe of thought. Perhaps you can respond to this as Bo
> has thus far neglected to do so.

For Paul:
I dropped out of our discussion, one I called an "Annie Get Your 
Gun" parody.  ...."Anything you can say I can say 'no' to". I was 
planning a summary of its salient points, something I'm still 
musing over.  

> Mati: I don't know what your premises and conclusions are suggesting
> and how that will contribute to find a basis to discern intellectual
> values from other values which is my motivation in all this. 
> "Idealist Assumption"??? I don't know Bo's SOL being any more or less
> an idealist assumption than Pirsig's MOQ.  
 
Well put Mati. Paul's idealist accusation is most misplaced, if 
anything is idealist it is his own "carbon an intellectual pattern ..."  

> I don't want to assume what Bo's is thinking in this but I am
> intrigued by his choice of definition. Pirsig statement was, "As long
> as you're inside a logical, coherent universe of thought you can't
> escape metaphysics." Try this on for size and see if it has the same
> meaning, "As long as your're inside a universe of intellect, you can't
> escape metaphysics."  

Your twist to the LILA quote may be the correct one. It was with 
Aristotle that "metaphysics" as maps of reality came to be. And 
as this represents the intellectual level it's based on its S/O 
template of a reality "out there" that we "in here" can make maps 
of. 

But the MOQ makes SOM (Aristotle) a static level of its own, and 
is  thus not part of that scheme, but truly a new reality. If we 
relinquish that the MOQ is done for. I still believe this is what 
Pirsig meant by the "you can't avoid metaphysics", that even 
Stone Age humankind could not avoid constructing a world view; 
A 3rd. level metaphysics      

Bo