[MD] Is Quality Value?

[Arlo J. Bensinger]

[Ham]
Let me ask you a couple of dialectical questions.  If by "absolute test" you
mean to imply that MOQ morality is Absolute, why is Darwinian evolution a
trial-and-error process whose outcome is largely dependent on the vicissitudes
of Nature?   It seems palpably clear to me that existence -- including human
behavior -- is a relativistic system.  If there is an Absolute Morality for
man, how would you define it as a cultural standard?

[Arlo]
I used the term "absolute" in scare quotes, you should know, because I don't
think apart from a lower level threatening a higher level there is an "absolute
moral/immoral" test in the MOQ. That is, it is not a "biological pattern of
value" (such as "sex" or "drinking alcohol") that is immoral, but when these
patterns threaten the existence of social patterns of value.

Thus, the Samoan sexual morals were not "immoral" in Samoan culture. Those same
behaviors, however, transplanted to American culture (it was argued) threatened
American society. It is (or should be) the job of Intellect/Reason to determine
when a lower-level pattern of value constitues a legitimate threat, and when it
does not.

To your other question about Darwin, I'm not exactly sure what you're asking.
Could you restate, please?

[Arlo to Platt]:
Show me where, in Lila, Pirsig indicates that a particular behavior is
absolutely immoral except for in context where a lower level threatens to
destroy a higher level.

[Ham] 
Now, you've introduced Absolute Immorality.  Could you also define that
concept in terms of man's behavior?

[Arlo]
Not me. I don't think something can be "absolutely immoral" except when a higher
level is threatened by a lower level. And, I also think you can't just "claim"
something is a threat. You have to prove it. We all know how good politicians
are at claiming things to be threats to society, eh?

[Arlo previously]:
Indeed, it is immoral for society to suppress biological patterns of value that
do not constitute a threat to society.

[Ham]
Can you give me an example of a "biological pattern of value"?  Would
natural evolution of the species be such a pattern?

[Arlo]
In this discussion, I would say the appropriate example would be "sex" (a la the
Samoan story). My challenge to Platt would be to use the MOQ to show me a
"sexual behavior" that is immoral, but that does not violate the MOQ hierarchy.

I think (and this is just me) that "natural evolution" is an intellectual
pattern used to describe aggregate biological patterns of value, or perhaps
better said, to describe the historical path of biological patterns of value.

[Ham]
Morality is a sticky wicket, gentlemen.  I think we would need more than the
wisdom of Solomon to define it in absolute terms, whether we're talking about
man's behavior or the patterns of the cosmos.

[Arlo]
Fully agree.

Good Yule to All,

Arlo