[MD] Is Value the opposite of Quality?

[khaled Alkotob]

Well that got me thinking. 

When we put a value on something, we use a measuring stick and one of the
first premises of Quality is that it was undefinable.

To say you value freedom implicates that you are struggling to have it.

If you have it, then it becomes a non-issue then you don't talk about it.
You may take it for granted, but it's a non issue.

As Pirsig said, you don't see people running around saying the sun is
going to rise tomorrow, but they will spend eternity trying to prove the
existence of God. They build a mosque or a church and miss the point that
he is everywhere and nowhere.

Value is subject related and not object related. That right there tells
you its fallacy.

So when we start putting value on stuff around us, it voids them of their
quality

just a thought

Khaled

> [Khaled]
> That is the golden question here. How free is our free will and when 
> does coercion cross the line.
> 
> [Arlo]
> Greetings, my friend. As you know, there are multiple forms of 
> coercion. Bourdieu had postulated that the appropriation of a symbolic
system (aka,
> "enculturation") was a form of coercion by which the values of the 
> cultural group were passed to the individuals.
> 
> This is not so blatant as "you will value this", but entails the 
> subtle conceptual metaphors mentioned earlier (such as "argument is
war"), 
> and the
> powerful coercive ability of the vendors of style (advertising). In 
> a "free market", an American and a Tibetan Highlander will make
radically 
> differnet "free" decisions. Why is this? Because there is no
"objective" 
> decision to value that is acultural.
> 
> This relation, between individual and culture, is, of course, 
> dialectical, in
> that it responds over historical time, based largely on
> fundamental-foundational belief shifts by the group. The shift from 
> SOM to MOQ-based thinking was a proposal for such a shift.
> 
> The underpinnings of our culture is, undoubtably, mercantilistic. 
> "The Wealth of
> Nations" continues to be the kulturbarer from which our valuistic 
> system
> derives. In such a culture, the free market will respond as such. In 
> a
> non-mercantilistic culture, a free market would not necessarily show 
> the same
> trajectory.
> 
> "He had built empires of scientific capability to manipulate the 
> phenomena of
> nature into enormous manifestations of his own dreams of power and 
> wealth...but
> for this he had exchanged an empire of understanding of equal 
> magnitude: an
> understanding of what it is to be a part of the world, and not an 
> enemy of it."
> 
> A free market under the former mindset ("enormous manifestations of 
> power and
> wealth") you see what we have today (this was Pirsig's point), a 
> free market
> under the later ("to be a part of the world, and not an enemy of 
> it") would
> behave very differently. Not because of "government interference", 
> but because
> the individual value decisions made by individuals in the market 
> would reflect
> a different valuation, one that placed "being part of the world" 
> higher than
> "manifestations of wealth and power".
> 
> This is the point the capistocracy continues to miss. They see only 
> half the
> equation (to remove government interference), but denying that there 
> is any
> concern (as Pirsig had) for the valuistic underpinnings, the 
> foundational
> metaphysics, of individuals in the market. In short, remove the 
> governance but
> maintain the "enormous manifestations of power and wealth" SOMist 
> position that
> drives their psychological need for power and money.
> 
> Indeed, it was BECAUSE the SOMist "free" market commodified people 
> and led to
> the aweful state of labor and production in the pre-1920s. A time, 
> of course,
> the capistocracy holds dear, but none would want to return to as 
> say, a Pullman
> employee, a miner or a factory worker. It was individuals, as SA has 
> recently
> pointed out, that demanded "better treatment" "in spite of" the 
> prevailing
> SOMist mindset that saw them as nothing but expendable, inhuman 
> resources in
> the pursuit of wealth.
> 
> Arlo
> moq_discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
>