[MD] dharma, the way, zazen, path, the morning fog, etc...

[Heather Perella]

Hello Kevin,

     SA said:  
>      Many times I have read on the MOQ.org
> discussions that Pirsig left a lot
>      for us to realize and he didn't define much of
> what he wrote about or
>      discussed, thereby, some may and have expressed
> that his philosophy is
>      unfinished.  I would say they are correct,
> because Pirsig cannot complete
>      a philosophy of life.  I think he understood
> that.

   Kevin said
> I often wonder what would be the context and title
> of a third book.  First came
> An Inquiry into Values, a book that explored the
> question "what is quality?"
> Then came An Inquiry into Morals, a book that
> proposed an answer to the
> question with a comprehensive framework of reality. 
> But how comprehensive
> is the answer?
>   
> According to the Metaphysics of Quality there is no
> reality apart from our
> experience of it and there is no greater experience
> than that which is made
> possible through the human intellect.  And that's
> where I have a problem with
> the Metaphysics of Quality.

     What is intellect?
     What reality/experience would we know of outside
of us knowing it?  Wouldn't we not know of something
outside of our knowing of it?  Please clarify your
comments above.
   
> My experience of reality has taught me that there
> are much greater
> experiences than those mediated by the human
> intellect.  As I see it, science
> and philosophy are the limits of what the human
> intellect is capable of
> producing.  And I think that's saying a lot. 
> Science and philosophy are good
> and valuable things.  The problem is they're not
> very useful for answering
> questions about faith, hope, love, forgiveness and
> mercy.  People have
> traditionally turned to art and religion for answers
> to these questions.

What is science and philosophy according to you? 
Philosophy for me is a way of life described.  How
would philosophy not come to answer faith, hope, love,
forgiveness, and mercy?  If these are very important
aspects of our experience as human beings then would
not these values have a quality that we would endear? 
I understand faith has been debated by some, and that
debate just follows their personal take on what faith
is or if it even exists.  Quality and value would
allow such personal opinions that values decree by
forming individual realities (the sorting out of what
life is according to what our values dictate and
filter).  As to hope, this is a wish, a desire for
something better - right?  Wouldn't that fall in step
with our values and desire to have such values bring a
quality of life to our experience.  Love is a sharing
that is valuable.  I don't know I feel I could go
through each one of your values and connect them with
Pirsig's quality.  To me it seems you are debating not
what value is or what quality is or maybe I don't know
what you are debating.  But I do think you are
debating the kind of values each person may have in
the kind of quality of life we are motivated to have. 
So it is each persons values you debate?  Isn't values
Pirsigs point?  We have these values that define SQ
amidst that undefined DQ that is way beyond our
current thought as human beings.  We cannot think what
DQ is, because once we do it is SQ. 
   
> If the Metaphysics of Quality were to be developed
> further I wonder if its SQ
> hierarchy would include something higher than the
> intellectual level.  I wonder
> how a level called a static pattern of mystical
> quality would fit in?  Maybe it
> could be worked out in a third book, An Inquiry into
> Mysticism.

     Mysticism is DQ.  Again, what is intellectual -
in Pirsig's intellectual level?  What does
intellectual mean?  I would be careful in using
today's current usage of such a term.  Philosophers
have been using a Greek definition for intellect,
which is tied to cosmos.  Thus, what we know is One
with the cosmos, and the Greeks had gods and goddess'
in their cosmos so even a Christian only one G-d
heaven and earth fits into what the intellect is made
up of.  
     I guess it all depends on what you value and that
is the kind of intellect you will have in shaping your
intellectual level that influences each of the other
levels.  Morals are the determinants in each of the
levels.  Morals bring definition as to what justice is
being done as when somebody is defining what is valued
good and what is valued bad in their world.  If each
level is not carefully attended then the level of
chaos will show itself.  Balance - the middle way in
our approach is important.  If we don't have balance
in our individual worlds we are not helping define
balance in the intellectual world that is also this
universe.  Is not the universe intellectually
understandable?  Remember, as well, intellect does not
necessary mean just thought or mind or something in
this tiny skull of ours.  Intellect is tied to our
heart.  Our intellect is heart/mind and even it is
heart/mind/body, and even is heart/mind/body/society,
and even is heart/mind/body/society/nature, etc... 
Our intellect is apart of all of these aspects of life
that we may value. 

Thanks,
SA

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