[MD] dharma, the way, zazen, path, the morning fog, etc...

[david buchanan]

SA, Kevin and all morning foggers:

SA said:
Many times I have read on the MOQ.org discussions that Pirsig left a lot for 
us to realize and he didn't define much of what he wrote about or discussed, 
thereby, some may and have expressed that his philosophy is unfinished.  I 
would say they are correct, because Pirsig cannot complete a philosophy of 
life.  I think he understood that.

Kevin replied:
I often wonder what would be the context and title of a third book.  First 
came An Inquiry into Values, a book that explored the question "what is 
quality?" Then came An Inquiry into Morals, a book that proposed an answer 
to the question with a comprehensive framework of reality.  But how 
comprehensive is the answer?

dmb says:
Unfinished? How comprehensive? Well, the MOQ fails to provide any detailed 
information about the history of chess and in terms of specifics it does 
nothing to help wood workers or plumbers. But it would be unrealistic to 
expect that kind of detail, wouldn't it? But I think the MOQ is designed so 
that the details can be added to sharpen the big picture. I think of it as a 
general framework into which absolutely everything can fit.

Kevin said:
According to the Metaphysics of Quality there is no reality apart from our 
experience of it and there is no greater experience than that which is made 
possible through the human intellect.  And that's where I have a problem 
with the Metaphysics of Quality.

dmb says:
No greater experience than human intellect? Actually, that's not what the 
MOQ asserts at all. Quite the opposite. That is the assertion that the MOQ 
attacks. The MOQ is an attempt to provide an expanded rationality, one that 
tries to accomodate mystical experience. The MOQ asserts that intellect is 
the most evolved form of static quality, but also asserts that there is a 
Dynamic component to experience beyond static intellect.

Kevin said:
My experience of reality has taught me that there are much greater 
experiences than those mediated by the human intellect.  As I see it, 
science and philosophy are the limits of what the human intellect is capable 
of producing.  And I think that's saying a lot.  Science and philosophy are 
good and valuable things.  The problem is they're not very useful for 
answering questions about faith, hope, love, forgiveness and mercy.  People 
have traditionally turned to art and religion for answers to these 
questions.

dmb says:
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't it true that "faith, hope, love, 
forgiveness and mercy" are static and not Dynamic? I would say these values 
are primarily social level static values and so they are not beyond 
intellect, but rather they are below it. I believe you are confusing social 
values with Dynamic Quality here. In the MOQ's hierarchy of morals, this 
would be a double sin.

Kevin said:
If the Metaphysics of Quality were to be developed further I wonder if its 
SQ hierarchy would include something higher than the intellectual level.  I 
wonder how a level called a static pattern of mystical quality would fit in? 
  Maybe it could be worked out in a third book, An Inquiry into Mysticism.

dmb says:
Well, I think the MOQ already includes "mystical quality" in its hierarchy. 
Its at the very top and is known as "the code of art". But this is not a 
static level and it never can be for the simple reason that Dynamic quality 
is not static. I don't think we need a third book to get mysticism on board 
because it is already on board. It drives the whole thing, its what 
motivated the MOQ's creation in the first place and it is reflected in the 
MOQ's first and most important distinction.

Thanks.

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