[MD] Defining Dynamic Quality

[david buchanan]

Matt and all MOQers:

Matt said to dmb:
I understand that Pirsig wants DQ to have nothing to do with Platonism.  But 
why can't we ask whether he was successful or not?  Why can't we read that 
characterization by Northrop and ask, "Well, is Northrop right to say that 
or wrong?"  Why can't we ask whether or not there is more in common between 
the East and the West than some people think?

dmb replies:
You understand that they have nothing in common? You're backtracking here, 
you know. I mean, that's certainly not what you said one week ago. Here are 
a few highlights...

Last Sunday evening, Matt said to dmb:
"There actually isn't much to my response because I'm just not sure what's 
going on.  I think I just don't see what picture it is you're offering.  
...a thorough rejection of Platonism would still look the same, wouldn't it? 
  ...That's why I need to know what the intuition/postulation distinction is 
for, how it functions, where it comes from, that kind of thing.    Prima 
facie, it looks like a typical Western distinction.  ...the Western mind 
certainly will be confused because it doesn't have Eastern purposes.  ...My 
Western mind has been taught to treat such a thing (what Northrop says) as 
dirty, tainted with Platonism.  So what is it for?  ...The question is: can 
I steer completely free of Platonism and still not believe in Brahman

dmb continues:
Sorry if that scorches your feet too much, but I want to remind you that 
last week you gave me the impression that you were willing to entertain 
certain possibilities and asked questions as if you actually wanted some 
answers. Now you seem to be dismissing the whole thing by pretending that 
you never asked, that you already understand the distinction and never 
confessed that you were reading Pirsig through Western eyes, especially with 
respect to his rejection of Plato. I feel so thoroughly ripped off by this 
reversal that I felt I had to, at least, show you exactly what it is that 
made me cry. I wept for nearly an hour before I could gather the strength to 
type.

Matt said to dmb:
I apologize if I don't do it well, but that's a case of my incompetence. But 
the way you reproach me sounds like those questions are totally out of 
court.  And that's absurd.

dmb says:
Yea, that would be absurd. I don't think questions about Pirsig's success 
and Northrop's rightness are "totally out of court". I suppose they're a bit 
pre-mature, however. Like I said, you gave me the impresssion that you 
didn't understand what difference it makes, that you didn't understand what 
the Northropian categories were all about. As I said, I'm not trying to 
convert you to Buddhism or anything like that, just to understand some 
concepts. And I don't think questions about the rightness or success of 
those concepts can be addressed until after the concepts are clearly 
identified and understood, etc. And as the thread name indicates, we're 
talking about Pirsig's DQ. That's all we're doing. Firstly, we're just 
trying to be clear about this key term.

Now, is there any way I could get you to backtrack on the backtracking so we 
can get back on track? I mean, didn't look at that article on Northropian 
categories? Don't you have a more, um, generous and thorough response to my 
post from yesterday. Are you really gonna just dismiss the whole thing? 
Jeez, I thought we crossed a threshold. I thought we finally agreed about 
what our real disagreement is about here. That's why I wept for nearly two 
hours this morning.

And, I dare say, its much easier for me to believe what you said last week. 
I'll remind you that I've been asserting the irrelevance of your 
anti-Platonism for quite some time and so I thought we had finally 
discovered a way to explore that issue without too much confusion. I thought 
we were finally at the end of something bad and at the start of something 
good, in terms of a meaningful conversation. That's why I wept for nearly 
three hours when I saw that you wish to take it all back.

I think you owe me a carefully considered reply and a box of kleenex.

dmb

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