[MD] Why the return to literal anti-intellectual religion

Mon Apr 17 14:24:44 PDT 2006

Hi Ian

I would certainly add that I hope there is a future for
more intellectual forms of religion a way forward rather
than backwards, the sort of thing Hegel, Schelling
and Holderlin discussed as students.

DM

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "ian glendinning" <psybertron at gmail.com>
To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] Why the return to literal anti-intellectual religion

> Dave and DMB, et al,
>
> I very much agree with this statement
> "I think that failure on the intellectual level has much blame to
> carry. Western thought and science is dominated by an obsession with
> SQ, order: knowledge and power over SQ. Such a view has disenchanted
> existence and people have returned to anti-intellectual forms of
> religion."
>
> I see that as the central problem facing the world - no less. The
> reason for me to have any interest in philosophy at all. (And the
> reason  for my insistance against Bo for example, that the
> intellectual level must include it's own evolution, if MoQ is to
> provide any value to solving that problem.)
>
> (And we "enlightened intellectuals" - notice the scare quotes - need
> to very careful not to compound the problem by tarring "all people"
> with any religious beliefs with the generalisation inherent in such a
> succint, but nevertheless true, statement.)
>
> Ian
>
> On 4/12/06, David M <davidint at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> Hi DMB
>>
>> Yes the below is a very serious concern. How have we got to this place?
>> I think that failure on the intellectual level has much blame to carry.
>> Western thought and science is dominated by an obsession with SQ,
>> order: knowledge and power over SQ. Such a view has disenchanted
>> existence and people have returned to anti-intellectual forms of 
>> religion.
>> What I think we need is a form of intellectual outlook that allows DQ
>> to be brought back into play rather than banished. New ideas in physics,
>> post-enlightenment radical theology (eg Don Cupitt), eastern religious
>> thought, post-modern irony, Roy Bhaskar's critical realism,
>> and the MOQ are all possible ways forward, there are others.
>>
>> Regards
>> David M
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "david buchanan" <dmbuchanan at hotmail.com>
>> To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
>> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 12:30 AM
>> Subject: Re: [MD] False Messiah
>>
>>
>> > DM, Scott and all y'all:
>> >
>> > DM said to dmb:
>> > ...Here's an example from New Zealand: http://sof.wellington.net.nz/
>> > ...What
>> > are you trying to prove and how would you like to set about banning
>> > theism?
>> > Personally I suggest encouraging radical theology of which there is a
>> > great
>> > deal. Have a look at Don Cupitt's After God.
>> >
>> > dmb tries this one again:
>> > I looked briefly at the 'sea of faith" web site and at Don Cupitt a bit
>> > too.
>> > Again, to the extent that that these organizations and authors are not
>> > theists they are not the target of my criticisms of theism. But just in
>> > case
>> > there is any chance that you're actually interested the real target, 
>> > you
>> > might want to check out a book called AMERICAN THEOCRACY" by Kevin
>> > Phillips,
>> > a long-time Republican and former Reagan Administration offical. That's
>> > how
>> > bad its getting gents. Supreme Court Justice O'Connor, who was 
>> > appointed
>> > by
>> > a Republican, recently complained about the death threats leveled 
>> > against
>> > her and explained how it was part of the American right's attack on the
>> > Judicial branch, and how that attack was part of a movement toward a
>> > dictatorship in the United States. Justice Ginsberg has also had death
>> > threats and agrees with her more conservative peer. John Dean, another
>> > long-time Republican and former Nixon Administration bigshot recently
>> > wrote
>> > a book about the present administration called "Worse than Watergate".
>> > President Dumbass says Jesus is his favorite philosopher, "because he
>> > changed my heart". Again, when this thread began I hoped it would be a
>> > discussion of neo-Victorian moral decline. And the current tendency to
>> > theocracy is at the heart of this moral decline, the slipping back to 
>> > the
>> > last static latch. It tends to undo the intellectual principle upon 
>> > which
>> > the US was founded AND tends to result in a rather aggressive foriegn
>> > policy. And the wider global tensions and downright bloodshed also 
>> > happens
>> > to involve some theism of a different flavor. See, the Republican Party 
>> > is
>> > run by literalist (Its true. There are hard numbers on this. 55% of 
>> > them
>> > believe in the "end times" prophecies, for example) And presently the
>> > Republican party has control over all three branches of government so 
>> > that
>> > they control the nation with relatively unchecked power. International
>> > checks and balances on their power are relatively inert too, given the
>> > sheer
>> > size of the US military and, more specifically, the administration's
>> > contempt for the United Nations, the Geneva Conventions, and such. 
>> > Gents,
>> > when you add it all up, we're talking about religious fanatics with 
>> > nukes,
>> > fanatics on a mission from God. And I don't mean Islamic 
>> > fundamentalists.
>> > I'm talking about how dangerous our own Christian fundamentalist are.
>> > That's
>> > the target. OK?
>> >
>> > If you think Don Cupper or anybody else can help to diagnose or treat 
>> > that
>> > problem, feel free to explain. Personally, I like the MOQ, Wilber,
>> > Campbell,
>> > Watts, and lots of other thinkers. I think they offer something like a
>> > diagnosis and a recommendation for treatment. But again, if you have 
>> > your
>> > hands on a better idea, or even just a pretty good idea, bring it. I've
>> > been
>> > bringing plenty and boy are my fingers tired.
>> >
>> > "The selling out of intellectual truth to the social icons of organized
>> > religion is seen by the MOQ as an evil act." RMP
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> > dmb
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
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>>
>>
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