[MD] dharma, the way, zazen, path, the morning fog, etc...

[Heather Perella]

Hello Kevin and Peter,

     SA said:
   > I find to much quality in this kind
> > of experience to include SQ alone.  DQ is
> definitely
> > together with these kinds of relationships,
> because
> > these kinds of deep relationships are more than
> mere
> > thought or identifying something.  These
> relationships
> > are the actions themselves.
>   
> I find it helpful to consider my part in these
> relationships as either helping or
> hindering the interactions, what I think of as the
> flow of life.  It seems to me that
> the quality of relationships is a function (there's
> the engineer in me) of this flow.
> And so it becomes a choice.  We can facilitate the
> flow and the quality or we can
> choose to do something else.  It sounds trivial but
> I believe this is a key choice.
> The flip side is that we're choosing to either feed
> or starve our ego.  We can focus
> on the relationship or we can focus on ourselves.

     We never focus only on ourselves.  Wouldn't any
value we have, even if we think it has to do only with
ourselves, isn't that value going to manipulate the
world in some way?  Would not the relationships we
have hurt or help us and others?  Would not a society
that is degenerate notice its' demise?  Even if this
demise is not noticed it would happen anyways and
those not noticing the death around them would they
not be clear in the head.  Life is our measure.  That
which nourishes and sprouts DQ, that is our focus.  Is
it in our relationship, it is in ourselves, it is in
others, it is somewhere that I can't exactly say it is
here or there, but it is somewhere.  DQ is where
everything comes together and then we mention the
event and that mentioning is SQ.
   
> >     Kevin said:  "Which is to say it takes faith
> and
> > love and prayer.  And this is a challenge because
> > anything that takes effort has to deal with the
> ego."
> > 
> >     Ok, I see we are moving beyond just SQ (the
> > identities of quality) into DQ [because of the
> actions
> > themselves (beyond just identifying)].  And I note
> the
> > challenge of such efforts.  
>   
> Maybe.  I'm not sure.  We may want to explore how DQ
> and SQ affect each
> other.

     DQ and SQ seem to take us away from ego.  SQ is
close to ego because of its' defining and identifying
aspect, but I don't know if we necessarily need to
focus on ego being something that we have to take on
by the horns?
   
> >     Yes, people and life, not what we think about
> > people and life.  This is why I think trying to
> think
> > and talk about something.  To try to put life into
> > words and have a theory about life put into some
> neat
> > little package of thoughts.  To be able to do such
> a
> > task is impossible.
>   
> And so we interact.

     We interact with words over the computer, but
maybe what your saying here in this last sentence of
yours is that we know we can't fill in all the blanks
on the questionnaire of what is life (we don't and
never will have the wisdom that this universe as a
whole has due to us never being the moon, sun, or even
an ant).  I am just guessing to what is "and so we
interact".  Words have meaning and do say much, but I
will never talk a rock. 



     Peter said to Kevin:  "you said 'We can
facilitate the flow and the quality or we can choose
to do something else'. I don't think that being human
is anywhere near so simple as that. If I'm wrong then
how do you explain all the lower quality forms of life
that go about as humans, paedophiles for instance?"

     Who would think, on the intellectual level of
moral DQ that paedophiles have quality?  Not I.

     Peter:  "Every human being follows the
fundamental pattern of behaviour of doing what they
think is good for them, but for most, if not all of
us, our notion of what is good for us is distorted."

      Ethically don't you think this could be sorted
out, such as the law (a branch of ethics).

     Peter:  "I recognize the value of inner-work but
that avenue is either closed to or rejected by the
vast majority of people who are too busy with their
lives."

     You know I haven't yet finished Lila yet, but
what I read this morning is exactly what I have been
talking about with 'quality time' and meditation
(dhyana).

     Peter:  "For those people, and I would say also
for those who meditate, choice is largely a
semi-conscious act..."

     When I meditate I am very, very conscious.  It
depends on what you mean by "...choice is largely a
semi-conscious act...", but I am very well aware of
either (1) relaxing and living watching the SQ events
free in order to notice the space inbetween the SQ
events.  As the SQ events become far removed from each
other over here and there the dharmkaya light or in
other words, DQ or this quality event that is endless
and even if I try to put my SQ stamp on it I would
notice the stamp move right through it, like a ghost
or the air.  It is something, but nothing I could
exactly and literally put my foot on.  It is a space
that my hand, my SQ stamp in my mind moves through and
lands on nothing.  (2) or I could let the stuff that
fills the mind (SQ) become something that I am
occupied with like a child with Lego's.  I could try
to move these more tangible 'things' of the mind
around or push and pull them into different shapes,
like play-doe, or put them together this way or that
way only to tear them down or see them fall apart by
other pieces still floating around that must go
somewhere, but don't seem to fit the current model. 
Yet, I am not totally against SQ (thoughts, words,
intellectual level, people, clothes, social level,
skin, trees, biological level, rocks, mulch, inorganic
level, or the bubbling of the quantum level, chaotic
level), I experience SQ, yet, I notice DQ as well.  It
is not just a matter of balance, but letting calmness,
a sense of relaxation guide me.  This was my first and
still my original fallback when I have those moments
while meditating in which I am not exactly sure how to
conduct myself.

     Peter said:  "...and yet we are doing it all our
waking lives!  Perhaps only after enlightenment is it
possible to make a real choice ;)"

     Enlightenment?  Real choice?  Plain, old,
ordinary life that's where I settle.  


SA 

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