[MD] New Model Army, Mystic(DQ) Experience, and Religion (SQ) as Power

[ian glendinning]

Nice one Arlo.

Good to hear New Model Army again after all these years ...

Anyway, you said in response to Steve
[Quote] It is in the "statification" of these mystic experiences that
the "church"
becomes more important than the "message". One spends more time worshipping
"Jesus" than actually doing what he suggests.[Unquote]

That's a succinct statement of what is at issue, and I think that is
exactly Pirsig's point with his church of "reason" too. Being socially
comfortable within your "church" mustn't "statify" the dynamic
intellectual questioning of its ways and means ... and as you also
point out there is definitely an individual / collective axis in that
issue too.

Ian

On 8/2/06, Arlo J. Bensinger <ajb102 at psu.edu> wrote:
> Stephen,
>
> I think the whole point of the lyrics was that Mystic/DQ experience is personal,
> and as it is relagated to static patterns it is often used to perpetuate its
> own power, rather than "lead the flock to enlightenment".
>
> "If it was truly a new route over the mountain it's certainly a needed one. For
> more than three centuries now the old routes common in this hemisphere have
> been undercut and almost washed out by the natural erosion and change of the
> shape of the mountain wrought by scientific truth. The early climbers
> established paths that were on firm ground with an accessibility that appealed
> to all, but today the Western routes are all but closed because of dogmatic
> inflexibility in the face of change. To doubt the literal meaning of the words
> of Jesus or Moses incurs hostility from most people, but it's just a fact that
> if Jesus or Moses were to appear today, unidentified, with the same message he
> spoke many years ago, his mental stability would be challenged. This isn't
> because what Jesus or Moses said was untrue or because modern society is in
> error but simply because the route they chose to reveal to others has lost
> relevance and comprehensibility. "Heaven above" fades from meaning when
> space-age consciousness asks, Where is "above"? But the fact that the old
> routes have tended, because of language rigidity, to lose their everyday
> meaning and become almost closed doesn't mean that the mountain is no longer
> there. It's there and will be there as long as consciousness exists." (Pirsig,
> ZMM).
>
> It is in the "statification" of these mystic experiences that the "church"
> becomes more important than the "message". One spends more time worshipping
> "Jesus" than actually doing what he suggests. Many in history have divided the
> "flock" of these religions into those who seek exoteric understanding (the
> literal word on the page), and those who seek esoteric understanding (the
> metaphorical message of the words). What side you camp on in your own business,
> but the dangers of an all exoteric approach is fairly evident by simply viewing
> the actions of "believers" in the name of their respective "God".
>
> And, by the way, the lyrics have nothing to do with "science" as being the only
> path. I'm not even sure where you got that from. They say nothing except bowing
> to love and beauty is Good, while bowing to "a god in the image of man" (a
> social power structure) is not. I believe this. You find value in bowing to
> such a structure. Sobeit.
>
>
>
>
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