[MD] New Model Army, Mystic(DQ) Experience, and Religion (SQ) as Power

[Joseph Maurer]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "david buchanan" <dmbuchanan at hotmail.com>
To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] New Model Army, Mystic(DQ) Experience,and Religion (SQ) as 
Power


> Case said:
> I agree with the part about no separate intelligences and no 
> "supernatural"
> but rationality and logic are what take us out of the gooey emotional,
> feeling talk that spirituality ultimately leads to. rationality
> should not surplant emotion but when the two work in Harmony... ah, there 
> is
> that word again.
>
> dmb says:
> Gooey emotional feeling talk. Yea, that's exactly what I was complaining
> about when one of the posters defended his "faith" because of the 
> emotional
> satisfaction it provides. I could go on all day about how destructive this
> can be for individuals and societies alike. In short, this sort of "faith"
> is a kind of backward regression into PRE-rational thinking and is
> completely different than the TRANS-rational thinking. Again following
> Wilber, confusing the former with the latter is called "the pre/trans
> fallacy" and there is quite a lot of it going around in our time. This
> confusion plays a role in just about every reactionary movement in recent
> history. Seen this way, fascism and fundamentalism and neo-paganism are 
> all
> regressive steps backward. Seen this way, the mystical experience is not
> just a "feeling" but more like a realization, an epiphany, a great big "ah
> ha!" moment, a peak experience or something more along those lines.
>
> And yes, something like harmony is the goal. I think the idea in Wilber's
> work and in the MOQ is that we need to integrate these various levels so
> that they aren't in conflict with one another. Or, when they are in
> conflict, we can at least have some reasonable way to distinquish which
> level of values is to take precedence.
>
> And I have to say that this is basically the difference between 
> traditional
> theism on the one hand and philosophical mysticism on the other. One is
> pre-rational while the other is post-rational. And since both are NOT
> rational, people get confused and think they are the same. This confusion 
> is
> pretty much the definition of tragedy.
>
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