[MD] New Model Army, Mystic(DQ) Experience, and Religion (SQ) as Power

[Case]

dmb says:
But, unless Ken Wilber is a world class fraud, this idea is based on a
heaping helping of psychological data from many different sources.

[Case]
I am familiar with data relating to what you are calling pre-rational but
what data from psychology talks about the post-rational.

dmb says:
i think this is a false dilemma. And I think its irrelevant to the pre/trans

fallacy. See, scientist can get very emtionally involved in their work. 
Physicists are warm people who drink beer and tell jokes just like everybody

else. I'm just saying that the validity of one's beliefs can't rightly be 
measured in terms of how good they make us feel. The philosophical 
justifications for our beliefs simply can't be assessed in those terms. This

is not a denial of the importance of emotions. This is not a condemnation of

people who have feelings because everybody does. But if a scientist fakes 
his data to fit his theory or ignores the data that challenges his theory 
simply because its personally meaningful, then he's full of shit too. He's a

bad scientist and a dishonest person. Same thing with religion. In either 
domain, some assertions can be well justified and some...  um, not so much.

[Case]
Scientists frequently have epiphanies. They get irrational flashes of
insight or the seed crystals click in and whole structures of thought fall
into place. Drinking might help this, who knows, but there can be positive
irrational side to science. Of course when this happens a scientist has to
set about using rationality to "check his work" a point I have made poorly
several times. Polanyi makes this point. While science is grounded in
rationality, reason is not always its creative source.

dmb says:
They differ in their relationship to rationality. One comes before and one 
comes after. One is based on what you're told by tradition and the other is 
based on what you know from experience. Ironically, the tradition was 
originally based on the experience and is suppose to refer to it and lead 
you to it.

[Case]
So what characterizes the post-rational?