[MD] New Model Army, Mystic(DQ) Experience, and Religion (SQ) as Power

[david buchanan]

>From: "Case" <case at ispots.com>
>Reply-To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>Subject: Re: [MD] New Model Army, Mystic(DQ) Experience, and Religion (SQ) 
>as Power
>Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 14:42:42 -0400 (EDT)
>
dmb said:
And you seem to be suggesting that I'm all freaked out about some tiny 
fringe group of extremists. But as I keep trying to tell you, 85% of 
Americans call themselves Christian and the party of the religious right is 
in control of all three branches of government. And there is also the 
problem of trying to fit theism into the MOQ.

Case replied:
This was to Ian but since I have made the same charge several times I am 
butting in. Saying that 85% of Americans are Christian does not put them all 
in the religious right. Many Christains are as appalled by the right wing as 
are atheists.

dmb says:
Yes, of course I realize that not all christians beong the religious right. 
I'm simply pointing out that the religous right controls the party that 
holds power and that the vast majority of Americans are Christian. And it 
seems to me that the christians who are appalled by the right wing are not 
appalled with the right wing because they are christian or theist, but 
rather because they are right wing. If I had said that all christians were 
right wingers or all christians were republicans, you would have made a good 
point, but I didn't so you don't.

Case also said:
As for specifically theistic groups whose faith leads them to perform high 
Quality works, I mentioned the Koinonia and Habitat for Humanity earlier but 
I would add the Salvation Army, Freemasonry and 12 Step programs. None of 
these are part of your religious conspiracy and to varying degree qualify 
under Ian's definition to, "acknowledge the mystical metaphorical value of 
the idea of "god", but don't prescribe its literal authority outside the 
spiritual realm." In fact under this defination one could include most of 
the "mainline" denominations; basically the non-alter callers.

dmb says:
Yes, building houses for people who need them is a good thing. Charity is a 
good thing. But you are totally missing the point. Atheists, Scientologists 
and a troupe of clowns can build houses too. I'm talking about the 
difference between theism and mysticism. The 12-step programs are good for 
people who need to overcome addiction, but what does that have to do with 
mysticism? I mean, getting sober and getting enlightened are both good 
things but they're hardly the same thing.

Case said:
For Christain writers who fall into this catagory I would include Marcus 
Borg, Burton Mack, Elaine Pagels, Thomas Jefferson and Bishop John Shelby 
Sprong.

dmb says;
Okay, I'll bite. I'm a fan of Elaine Pagels and Thomas Jefferson. Let's 
start with them. Are you saying they are simply nice, moderate christians, 
which is beside the point, or are you trying to tell me that they are 
mystics? Oh, this outta be fun. Good luck.

_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to 
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement