[MD] New Model Army, Mystic(DQ) Experience, and Religion (SQ) as Power

[ian glendinning]

Ant, you said ...
[QUOTE]
Mysticism (i.e. being an adult when dealing with DQ) requires that
independence of mind you're unlikely - though not impossible - to find
in a social context (i.e. being a member of an established "religion"
invented by some one else).

Again, as I have said before, the Buddha points out that you are best
"seeing for yourself" regarding DQ.  It really is an important point
in understanding the MOQ.
[UNQUOTE]

I agree with you, despite the somewhat begrudging "though not impossible" :-)

I think you are really talking about the quality of diffferent social
contexts, contrasting an "established" type which says "these are our
values" as it hands them down and a higher quality kind that encourage
its members "see for yourself"

I think the key difference between Buddhism / MoQ-ism and a typical
"religion", is not that the former doesn't have values to hand down,
it does, but that its values are meta-values, a framework for values -
values within which are included the means of their own re-evaluation.
Evolution for short.

One of the reasons established religions are afraid of whole-hearted
(if any) acceptance of evolution.

That's the real difference, the rest is historical / etymological baggage.

Ian


On 8/12/06, Ant McWatt <antmcwatt at hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Case said to Dave Buchanan:
>
> >From a philosophical perspective I continue to maintain that the difference
> between mystics and theists doesn't add up to a bucket of warm spit.
>
> As a reply Dave Buchanan quoted August 11th....
>
> The Oxford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, under the heading "Mysticism":.
>
> "Some mystical experience is overtly theistic, having an ostensible
> reference to God, roughly as he is conceived in the theistic
> religions. And it is dualistic, in the sense of retaining a
> distinction between the mytsic and the God who is ostensibly
> experienced. Saint Theresa of Avila, a Spanish Catholic of the 16th
> century, is a good example of such a mystic. Other mystics, however,
> even within the  Catholic tradition, tend towards monism,
> emphasizing the unity of all things and the lack of real
> distinctions, even between the mystic and the divine reality."
>
> "Mysticism of the theistic, dualistic sort seems to generate no
> particular difficulty for Christian metaphysics, and indeed often
> includes specifically Christian elements, such as visions of Christ.
> Strongly Monistic mysticism, however, is harder to square with a
> Christian view, and when such mystics have themselves been Christans
> they have often been suspected of heresy. This sort of mysticism is
> likely to find a more comfortable religious home in the great
> non-theistic religions."
>
> And I should add that the belief in a "big daddy in the sky" or a
> "bearded wrist slapper" does not define theism. Holding that belief
> simply means you're a child - or an idiot.
>
> Ant McWatt comments:
>
> I suppose you could also add someone who has hypnotised by their cultural
> background or brainwashed by a religious sect (such as the Moonies or the
> Roman Catholic Church).  Mysticism (i.e. being an adult when dealing with
> DQ) requires that independence of mind you're unlikely - though not
> impossible - to find in a social context (i.e. being a member of an
> established "religion" invented by some one else).
>
> Again, as I have said before, the Buddha points out that you are best
> "seeing for yourself" regarding DQ.  It really is an important point in
> understanding the MOQ.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Anthony
>
>
> .
>
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