[MD] Individual v Collective

[ian glendinning]

Marsha and Mark ..

Good job you pointed that out Marsha because I didn't spot it in
Mark's mail on the first read through ...

So Mark, at the risk of getting pedantic, we have now moved the
definitional problem along to the difference between

repeating by "imitation" (without manipulation)
and
repeating (expressing a preference for) after "manipulation"

Again, I think I'm not disagreeing but saying these are not as clearly
distinct as it might at first appear (in living things with reasonably
sophisticated central nervous systems, and any kind of mind).

I see some of the same "reflective consciousness" thing I mentioned
before in the idea of "manipulation" ... so clearly, the less
relfective consciousness goes into "repeating" a pattern, the more it
looks purely social, reflexive "imitation", the more conscious
manipulation, the more it looks intellectual.

It's the adding in of "intellectual meaning" that makes it
"intellectual" ... as you said. Understood. I guess all I was
questioning ... in the bird-brained metaphor / analogy was whether a
bird call really lacked such meaning ... or to use a point I made
earlier ... where in the process any "meaning" arises.

If I say any more, I'm just repeating myself :-)
Ian



On 8/18/06, MarshaV <marshalz at charter.net> wrote:
> At 08:24 PM 8/17/2006, Mark wrote:
> >The MoQ says: Social patterns are imitated, Intellectual patterns are
> >manipulated.
>
> Whoops.  I forgot this important point from your statement.
>
> Marsha
>
>
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