[MD] sq social - sq intellectual

[Laycock, Jos (OSPT)]

Platt, SA

If this were individuals against the state then Ok we could say ok state
defends it's-self, no problem.
If this were State vs intellectuals we can say ok intelectuals
destroy/modify state, no problem. 
Intellect vs intellect, survival of the fittest, one idea dies, sad but no
blood spilt.

Unfortunatly here, the war on terror is a clash of societies. 
Two of Pirsig's giants are fighting and cultural patterns on both sides are
sacrificing/devouring biological lives for their own ends. 

If an intellect wants to subordinate a cultural pattern it should go right
ahead, but MOQ implies this should come from within the society not without.
Pirsig never talks about cultural clashes or wars, so we don't have clear
guidance.

IMO, The morally correct answer is to fight an idealogical battle between
the intellectuals of both cultures, for one culture to win the argument thus
allowing intellectuals in the (formerly) enemy group to modify/destroy their
own society and retract its violent biolgical arms. 
The current approach is the exact opposite - Kill people (biology) in order
to influence public opinion (culture) in order to force intellect's hand.
Completely amoral and the tactic employed by both sides.

Of course bottom up defence can be moral if the existence of the higher
level is at stake, WW1 & 2 this was absolutely the case and now too but to a
lesser extent. 
I'm no historian but perhaps our grandads were actually maintaining a
morally justifiable defence against biological war whilst waiting for the
boffins to kill off nazi ideals and finish the real rout from the top down. 
I note that following the war there was no Nazi resistance movement so this
would seem to be the case.

I'll fight anyone with a couple of jars in me.

Jos



 



> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of pholden at davtv.com
> Sent: 19 August 2006 14:34
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] sq social - sq intellectual
> 
> 
> Quoting Heather Perella <spiritualadirondack at yahoo.com>:
> 
> >      Excellent!!!!!  I understand when somebody hits
> > me, I hit back, but ideally, in the world of ideas,
> > this usurping and debating would be best demonstrated
> > in the world of ideas and the use of cleverness.  If
> > we could have populations of Ghandi, Martin Luther
> > King, Jr, Buddha, Lao Tzu, Christ, and the best
> > demonstration of this population I've learned about is
> > Tibetan monks as the Chinese rolled into their lives
> > with guns, then ideas would appear first....  Hence
> > the age old problem these people have tried to
> > demonstrate, but how many people actually were able to
> > behave according to the peace these people were trying
> > to personify.  It sickens me too, that blunt force is
> > used as a resort to finally get points across.
> 
> I wonder if you think it was wrong to use blunt force against 
> the Nazis and
> the Japs in World War II to "get points across."  Would you, 
> like Gene, be 
> unwilling to fight terrorists under any circumstances?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Platt
> 
> 
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