[MD] The Morality of obtaining profit

[Matt poot]

Hi all,


This is a good topic that seems to actually address the heart of some 
discussions that have been occuring.

I'll agree first off, that profit is moral.  Not only does it provide 
motivation for people, but it also provides rewards for more work put into 
some sort of endeavor (although not all endeavors reap financial rewards).

I will be using quotes here to provide emphasis for certain points I try to 
make, but the first point, should essentially start, and end the topic.
=====================================================

First question:  - The  Morality of obtaining profit  -

The Crux of the matter:

Platt: Yes, regardless of the motive, when work deliberately harms others, 
the social
order that promotes free choice is threatened and should be restricted.

Poot:  So. There we have it, point blank.  Profit becomes immoral, when work 
deliberately harms others.


Harm:  Physical or psychological injury or damage.

Others:  People aside from oneself


Do I need to provide examples of harm being done to others to 
maintain/obtain higher levels of profit ?  I will state, and you may quote 
me, that harm done is, most often, not done by any individual "CEO" or 
"Executive" under some "evil" premise of hoarding a pile of cash in his/her 
vaults.

There are various forms of cooperate buisiness ventures, whos goal,  and 
LEGAL OBLIGATION , is not to provide profit for SHAREHOLDERS, but to 
maximize it.  But , there are few laws that are being enforced, that protect 
the rights of STAKEHOLDERS .  This has had numerous benefits 
(jobs/infrastructure) for our societies, but also , as with anything else, 
has its negative aspects(harm to people/envrinonment).



Poot: Continue reading if you wish...please  :-|



Platt: In a free society people are motivated to work for any
number of reasons, making a living and profiting thereby being among the 
most
common. Nothing at all immoral about that that I can see from Pirsig's
evolutionary moral hierarchy where freedom is the highest value of all.


Poot: This is quite true.  Profits can secure a standard of living where the 
basic needs (food, clothing , shelter) are provided for.  They also can help 
attain any other number of material/non-material goods and services which 
can benefit both individuals and the societies they live in.


Heres a quote stated previously:
>
>"Thus, arguing that the most socially responsible companies are also the 
>best investments, is an inherently limited framework.  At some point, the 
>two objectives will clash.  If profit remains the primary goal, there is 
>only so far companies can conceivably go in the direction of corporate 
>social responsibility before it becomes too much of a drag on the bottom 
>line."     -  T.P.B pg107

Platt: The quote assumes a premise that profit-making cannot be socially 
responsible.
Nothing I know of in Pirsig's moral hierarchy suggests this to be the case, 
especially
when the meaning of "socially responsible" is not defined. Like what Pirsig 
said
about intellectuals not defining human rights, you're just supposed to cheer
for socially responsible companies.


Poot:  There is no direct, or indirect statements in this quotation that 
would infer profit-making cannot be socially responsible.  Social 
responsibility, is a pretty basic term.   social (societal)  
responsibility..... being responsible for effects you have on society, both 
small and large.  These affects can come in different  forms, such as 
negative environmental acts/policies (a.k.a. polllution), which harm both 
individuals and the communities they live in.


Platt:  Like what Pirsig said about intellectuals not defining human rights, 
you're just supposed to cheer for socially responsible companies.


Poot:  So, the constitution, among other things, should be voided as it is 
an intellectual definition of human rights?   I mean, it was intellectuals 
who wrote it, and put it into law.  hip hip hooray for that.



So, hopefully Platt, and I address this to you directly, we can find the 
convergence of the yin and yang of the world, where profit is the Axiom that 
can be recognized by the freedom granted through democracy.



Sincerely,


POOT