[MD] The Edge 2006 Annual Question

[Scott Roberts]

David M,

"You" are not consciously interpreting/reacting to the heat. But your body 
is. This is why I consider the hot stove example to be of no value in re DQ. 
That your body gets you off the stove prior to one's thinking about the 
incident is the body's SQ/DQ interaction, while our thinking is a different 
SQ/DQ interaction. So I would say that there is agency involved, which we 
call instinct. (Note that I did not say "the body is an agent". I do not 
know what qualifies as an agent on the biological level, or even if 
"agent/patient" is an appropriate distinction to make, but I think Sheldrake 
has interesting things to say in this regard.)

- Scott

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David M" <davidint at blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] The Edge 2006 Annual Question


Scott

I almost agree. But I would add that you are focussing
on the re-action of one pattern to another, but there is
also an action prior to re-action. When I experience heat
there is a non-interpretative aspect to this, an exchange of
energy that is changing me without any agency involved.
Such is our embodiment. Agree?

DM




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Roberts" <jse885 at localnet.com>
To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 2:32 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] The Edge 2006 Annual Question


> David M,
>
> We can only experience a quality like sweetness if we are embedded within
> a
> system of tastes. That is, there is a biological language of tastes, and
> therefore the particular taste has meaning. Now when you suggest that
> "experience prior to being able to construct objects through thinking as
> unconscious valuation" I agree, as long as one understands "unconscious"
> as
> referring to being outside normal human awareness. I would say that the
> body
> has a separate consciousness, since otherwise, the word 'valuation' is
> meaningless. It should also be noted that the object construction you
> mention is also unconscious to the normal awake human. That is, as far as
> we
> are normally aware, we immediately see a tree, and are unaware of piecing
> together the colors and shapes. BTW, the first stage (picking out the
> particular taste or color in a system of colors) Barfield calls "sensing",
> and the second stage "figuration".  Peirce considers the second stage to
> be
> a form of abduction (hypothesis formation), which I find interesting. In
> any
> case, I consider them both to be semiotic processes.
>
> - Scott
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David M" <davidint at blueyonder.co.uk>
> To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 7:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [MD] The Edge 2006 Annual Question
>
>
> Scott said:
>
> there is value involved, and that
>> implies triadic relations, not dyadic.
>
> DM: Is that right? Do we not experience a quality first, say a pleasant
> sweeetness, and so we have whole undivided value. Only if we
> go on to construct an object from a number of experiences do
> we form any dualism of an object causing these experiences in a
> subject. What we come to objectify as treacle, first appeared to
> us as fragments of experience, certain colours, certain feels of
> stickiness, a smell, and when we got it in our mouths a certain taste.
> By separation from other experiences and consruction into a pattern
> we create objects to form a dualism consisting of objects that we are
> subjected to. Of course this ability to divide and construct is
> inseparable
> from thinking and consciousness. Perhaps we should see experience
> prior to being able to construct objects through thinking as unconscious
> valuation.
>
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