[MD] Is Morality innate in the cosmos?

[Heather Perella]

Ham,

     You said:  "I would say that experience of the
future condition of being is unknown, hence is a
temporal kind of existential nothingness"."  

     I want to stop you before we continue with
including any concepts of the past or future.  I am
now seeing how there is "interference" (as you said)
in this discussion and I welcome David into the
discussion.  I am not including past or future in this
discussion.  I am trying to stabilize this discussion
into one long now.  Sure the sky has no bird and then
a bird flies by, so, a bird appears where there was no
bird, but then again, the bird keeps flying so that
particular spot has no bird.  Yet, I do not see a
past, present and future event here.  I see a place
where a bird is not, is, and then is not again.  Sure
for convenience we could use past and future to
further focus upon something, but I do not think of
past and future as separate from the present.

     You said:  "I followed this up to your final
parenthetical statement: "Essence is what I cannot
sense, but can as Nothingness".  Are you suggesting
that we sense Essence as Nothingness?"

     Yes, I am.

     You said:  "...while nothingness (as a void) is
intellectually knowable, I don't think we can say it
is experienced."

     Why not experienced?  When I sit (or walk for
that matter) I notice a void in my mind between my
thoughts while I am alive and taking certain action. 
I definitely experience moments where nothing is and
something is at the same time.  Yet, this nothing
continues on and on while thoughts, sounds, pictures
of the world take place, but always this nothingness
which is dark and quiet is present.  It is as walking
in a dark cave (I've done this before).  I could not
see anything, nothing at all, even if I reached out
with my hand I couldn't feel anything.  Yet, if I kept
walking I could sense the cold damp air, feel the
earth beneath my feet, and touch the cave walls if I
got close enough.  Without this absence, something
could not take place.  We need the void to allow
different things appear and disappear, especially in
the little space we have in our tiny skulls that can
only allow so much to happen at one particular time.

     David said (you quoted in the posting I am
reviewing now):
                 "> I think the concept of 'is' has no
place
                  > in any realm beyond the here and
now."

     You said:  "You see, my thinking is the exact
reverse.  I think the concept of 'is' is lost to us in
the maze of appearances.  What we perceive as being in
existence is an illusory manifestation of what really
'is'.  Which is why I say existence is only a
fragmented appearance of what 'is', and that what 'is'
is absolute and undivided.

     Try to explain that to David!"

     OK, I'll try.  This is a merging of both what
David and Ham are trying to say.  'Is' is both Essence
(which Ham interchanges with Absolute or Source at
times), and 'Is' is also what David says can only
belong to the here and now.  Ham says existence is a
maze of appearances and illusory, and I say this
illusion is here, right now.  Existence is just a
delineation or fragmentation of Essence, because we
process existence with concepts that are limited,
finite, delineatory, and fragmentory.  Yet, when I am
just here, clear my mind, watch thoughts come and go,
see the void in between and notice the void does not
come and go, it is the thoughts, birds singing, or
wind passing that comes and goes, this is when I
notice something with no distinctions experienced as
Nothingness, Quietness, Void of anything I am able to
comprehend, because I definitely cannot but it totally
into words, because it is an experience just as I
cannot speak rocks - rocks do not come out of mouth as
I try to talk about rocks, thus, there is something
else about rocks, even Nothingness, that when
experienced it can never be duplicated with our words.
 Our words only describe rocks and nothingness.  Yet,
I cannot even comprehend what this Nothingness is, I
can just experience it, not logically put it into
words.  This Nothingness even effects, is tied with,
and influences my feelings.  It has been described as
Bliss.  Yet, this nothingness has no distinctions
seems to be everywhere, yet, how could nothingness be
Essence which is All that is.  I think I only tap the
surface of Essence with my finite, tiny skull and
notice Essence as Nothingness, yet, noticing
Nothingness has no distinctions as All that is put
together would have no distinctions just one big lump
of everything, then somehow I am experiencing All of
this (which has no distinctions), and I can experience
distinctions.  This last point is where my last
posting stopped, and I stop now as well, because how
do are distinctions carved out of this 'big lump of
everything together'.  Where does focus upon
particulars come from or how is it happening?  Maybe I
will know or we will know.  Together we might just
figure this out, and who knows where that might bring
us in our understanding and experience of this earth
with sky.

Thanks everybody,
SA    

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