[MD] Is Morality innate in the cosmos?

[David M]

SA

Sounds good to me. Try this:

http://www.stanford.edu/dept/relstud/faculty/sheehan/pdf/01-hd-wm.pdf

I don't see any illusions myself. It's all real to me. There are different
sorts of real but it's all real. Your impression of the comings and
goings of experienced things is the most significant observation
we can make about the nature of experience I would say.
>From nothing and back to nothing, we are transcended by all
things, and we allow all things to be more than nothing.

DM



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Heather Perella" <spiritualadirondack at yahoo.com>
To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 4:01 AM
Subject: [MD] Is Morality innate in the cosmos?


> Ham,
> 
>     You said:  "I would say that experience of the
> future condition of being is unknown, hence is a
> temporal kind of existential nothingness"."  
> 
>     I want to stop you before we continue with
> including any concepts of the past or future.  I am
> now seeing how there is "interference" (as you said)
> in this discussion and I welcome David into the
> discussion.  I am not including past or future in this
> discussion.  I am trying to stabilize this discussion
> into one long now.  Sure the sky has no bird and then
> a bird flies by, so, a bird appears where there was no
> bird, but then again, the bird keeps flying so that
> particular spot has no bird.  Yet, I do not see a
> past, present and future event here.  I see a place
> where a bird is not, is, and then is not again.  Sure
> for convenience we could use past and future to
> further focus upon something, but I do not think of
> past and future as separate from the present.
> 
>     You said:  "I followed this up to your final
> parenthetical statement: "Essence is what I cannot
> sense, but can as Nothingness".  Are you suggesting
> that we sense Essence as Nothingness?"
> 
>     Yes, I am.
> 
>     You said:  "...while nothingness (as a void) is
> intellectually knowable, I don't think we can say it
> is experienced."
> 
>     Why not experienced?  When I sit (or walk for
> that matter) I notice a void in my mind between my
> thoughts while I am alive and taking certain action. 
> I definitely experience moments where nothing is and
> something is at the same time.  Yet, this nothing
> continues on and on while thoughts, sounds, pictures
> of the world take place, but always this nothingness
> which is dark and quiet is present.  It is as walking
> in a dark cave (I've done this before).  I could not
> see anything, nothing at all, even if I reached out
> with my hand I couldn't feel anything.  Yet, if I kept
> walking I could sense the cold damp air, feel the
> earth beneath my feet, and touch the cave walls if I
> got close enough.  Without this absence, something
> could not take place.  We need the void to allow
> different things appear and disappear, especially in
> the little space we have in our tiny skulls that can
> only allow so much to happen at one particular time.
> 
>     David said (you quoted in the posting I am
> reviewing now):
>                 "> I think the concept of 'is' has no
> place
>                  > in any realm beyond the here and
> now."
> 
>     You said:  "You see, my thinking is the exact
> reverse.  I think the concept of 'is' is lost to us in
> the maze of appearances.  What we perceive as being in
> existence is an illusory manifestation of what really
> 'is'.  Which is why I say existence is only a
> fragmented appearance of what 'is', and that what 'is'
> is absolute and undivided.
> 
>     Try to explain that to David!"
> 
>     OK, I'll try.  This is a merging of both what
> David and Ham are trying to say.  'Is' is both Essence
> (which Ham interchanges with Absolute or Source at
> times), and 'Is' is also what David says can only
> belong to the here and now.  Ham says existence is a
> maze of appearances and illusory, and I say this
> illusion is here, right now.  Existence is just a
> delineation or fragmentation of Essence, because we
> process existence with concepts that are limited,
> finite, delineatory, and fragmentory.  Yet, when I am
> just here, clear my mind, watch thoughts come and go,
> see the void in between and notice the void does not
> come and go, it is the thoughts, birds singing, or
> wind passing that comes and goes, this is when I
> notice something with no distinctions experienced as
> Nothingness, Quietness, Void of anything I am able to
> comprehend, because I definitely cannot but it totally
> into words, because it is an experience just as I
> cannot speak rocks - rocks do not come out of mouth as
> I try to talk about rocks, thus, there is something
> else about rocks, even Nothingness, that when
> experienced it can never be duplicated with our words.
> Our words only describe rocks and nothingness.  Yet,
> I cannot even comprehend what this Nothingness is, I
> can just experience it, not logically put it into
> words.  This Nothingness even effects, is tied with,
> and influences my feelings.  It has been described as
> Bliss.  Yet, this nothingness has no distinctions
> seems to be everywhere, yet, how could nothingness be
> Essence which is All that is.  I think I only tap the
> surface of Essence with my finite, tiny skull and
> notice Essence as Nothingness, yet, noticing
> Nothingness has no distinctions as All that is put
> together would have no distinctions just one big lump
> of everything, then somehow I am experiencing All of
> this (which has no distinctions), and I can experience
> distinctions.  This last point is where my last
> posting stopped, and I stop now as well, because how
> do are distinctions carved out of this 'big lump of
> everything together'.  Where does focus upon
> particulars come from or how is it happening?  Maybe I
> will know or we will know.  Together we might just
> figure this out, and who knows where that might bring
> us in our understanding and experience of this earth
> with sky.
> 
> Thanks everybody,
> SA    
> 
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