[MD] Barbarian attack

[Platt Holden]

SA:
 
>      I will not get into a dualistic argument with
> you, you know my stance on war versus peace.  So lets'
> delve into your worldview.  You say, "Killing in those
> cases preserved intellectual values from destruction."
>  I am looking at your word 'preserved', and with the
> insight from Marsha in her new subject introduced
> about Swiss Cheese I am inclined to say, we are trying
> to be dynamic and not so preservative, correct?

I suggest you read what Pirsig had to say about the benefits of static 
latching.

>      You said:  "Western ideals that established the
> enlightened intellectual level whereby not the state
> but each individual's life and liberty were held as
> sacred."  Sure, but can I not pay income taxes and
> live self-sufficiently, or do I have to get caught up
> in capitalism?  Are we moving forward into liberty or
> are we constrained and run by money?  Is the agenda of
> the U.S. economical imperialism?  Can the
> intellectuals stand-up and change anything on a daily
> and nightly basis or are we, as a society, just trying
> to run away still from dealing with each other.  Thus,
> by running away from each other and not dealing with
> any issues, in society at large, are people drinking,
> taking drugs, trying to have fun, being angry, joining
> gangs, talking about making the poor not poor (in this
> culture I think there would always be poor people so
> saying one will help the poor not be poor is a false
> hope).  We go to work to pay our taxes, yet we need
> money to pay our bills and car to get to work to pay
> our taxes.  We need food so we can live, so we can get
> to work to pay our taxes.  I could have a garden,
> which I did for two years and did not go to work. 
> Now, I could not have lived off of the garden alone,
> but I do not have the opportunity to do so either. 
> Why?  Property taxes.  This culture is dead set on
> having McDonalds some day be in Iraq.  Why?  To have
> Iraq have a good economy.  Yet, this good economy is
> based on capitalism.  With the population of the world
> today everybody cannot live a farmers, hunters and
> gathers lifestyle, yet, if some places of the world
> can, then let's not start to think, "Oh, those poor
> people, wouldn't it be nice if they could have a
> McDonalds."  This is something I am putting out there,
> and it is not tightly woven, but any input by others
> to help me understand or others understand would be
> appreciative.  Let's not be so preservative Platt,
> let's be a little bit more dynamic within this culture
> as to what intellectual ideals we could explore.  What
> Joseph has brought up for questioning in "Is democracy
> intellectual?" is an interesting MOQ angle.

A return to a hunter-gatherer society is not what I would call an 
intellectual ideal.

>     You asked:  "A question I have for you is do you
> think the killing done by America and its allies in
> the wars mentioned above was justified?"     I say,
> can't it be done another way.  Do we continually have
> to fight and kill to get our way?  Maybe this voice I
> am having is to being saved for a time when all people
> will listen and can decide to stop killing and
> concentrate on cultivating a Quality in the world
> worth valuing.
 
When you get Bin Laden and his followers to sit down and listen to you, 
let me know. I'll be rooting for you.

Platt
  
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