[MD] New Age++

[david buchanan]

Marsha, Gav and all MOQers:

Marsha opened with a parody of sorts:
I don't know if I could calculate the percentage of bullshit, but I think 
its safe to say that there are scholars and "world" leaders in the 
intellectual category that deserve to be ridiculed or even
exposed as frauds.

dmb says:
OK, fair enough. If you're saying we should be skeptical of the so-called 
mainstream thinkers too, I'd agree. But I've been to a few of those new-age 
bookstores, attended some seminars and otherwise investigated "new age" 
ideas. This has led me to conclude that this movement has more than its fair 
share of bullshit. I suppose that's because there is a mighty, mighty hunger 
among spiritual seekers and, apparently, just about anything tastes good 
when you're that hungry.

Marsha continued:
Is there some way to have a conversation without putting down those who 
believe, and choose, to use whatever energy there consciousness might 
possess to connect with something larger than intellect?  I think the 
biggest myth our society has to deal with is the myth that intellect is the 
pinnacle of the human evolution.  To me it's just another tool.  Call me 
biological if you like, but I have gotten more out of dancing around a 
fire/drum circle under the night sky than the hours I've spent trying to 
solve an intellectual dilemma?

dmb says:
Shall we dance? I'm a bit surprized at your reaction. It seems that you 
identify with the movement enough to be personally offended by my criticism 
of it. Just for the record, I've dance around fire circles under the night 
sky many times, but I love to philosophize around fire circles even more. 
And either way, there is usually some whiskey and laughter involved and 
there's always room for both. Please don't take me as saying that 
intellectual values are the only kind or that intellectuals should never 
dance, go into a trance or take off her pants. That's part of life too. I'm 
just saying that there is an anti-social and anti-intellectual streak within 
the movement, one that presents these primal pleasures as if they were lofty 
spiritual states. I hate to be such a party-pooper, but I think Campbell, 
Pirsig, Wilber and others are saying that this sort of confusion can be very 
destructive.

Marsha said:
This over emphasis on the intellectual may be blindsighting our culture 
because of its patriarchal structure.  Most men, not all, seem to be missing 
the boat.  What experience might Pirsig gained
from his night in a sweatlodge?  Intellectualizing about myths is also 
missing the boat.  What have you experienced???

dmb says:
You're worried about an over-emphasis on the intellectual in our culture? 
Really? I wish the American culture would put about a thousand times MORE 
emphasis on intellect. As I was trying to say, the problem is that we 
presently have a brittle and limited sort of rationality, one that has led 
us to be alienated from the other levels of the self. See, I don't think 
there a problem is asserting that intellect is higher of more evolved than 
mythic thinking or physical pleasures. The problem is with the rationality 
that can't or won't integrate these levels into a larger whole. As Pirsig 
puts it, this rationality thinks it was born without parents, thinks it is 
unrelated to its own origins.

I guess I am missing the boat because I gotta ask, what boat? And I really 
don't know how I gave you the idea that sitting in sweatlodges or exploring 
our myths was strictly an intellectual activity. As I understand it, Pirsig 
didn't have an idea in that sweatlodge, he had a vision. He puts it in 
intellectual, metaphysical terms in Lila, but that came later. And as for my 
own experience, to make a long story short (and make it sound good), I 
discovered Orpheus in conversation and in books, in an artistic quest, but 
he worked his way into my dreams, into my life and into my conference paper 
too. Myths seem to work on all kinds of levels and they seem to speak to all 
kinds of desires. And I'm not even saying that philosophy papers are better 
or truer than dreams, just that they're different and that its important to 
sort these things out.

Without specifics, I can only criticize the movement generally and don't 
really know how your particular views fit into that. I'd be willing to 
discuss particulars, if you or anyone else is up for it. If you will recall, 
Sam had asked Matt to forward the link to the anti-new age rant. The 
Campbell quotes I posted were a response to the fact that Campbell was 
listed among the fiqures in this movement. Sam thinks Campbell is "crap". So 
I guess it was aimed, at least partly, at me. I mention this because its 
kind of funny how I turned out to be the skeptic in this debate.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to pick up my dreamcatcher from the dry 
cleaners and then polish my pyramid-shaped crystal aroma-therapy 
candleholders before the moon sets. I have to get ready. You understand. 
This weekend I'm gonna put on a big suit and channel the spirit of Dean 
Martin.

Thanks
dmb

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