[MD] A Place for the (Quality) Principled Person

[MarshaV]

Arlo,

I like this post very much.  And I think your 
"person filled with Quality" is a much better 
approach.  Someone on this list once wrote 'to 
create a life as Art'.  I like that idea 
too.  Thanks for bringing this mess to a higher level.

Marsha



At 02:04 PM 7/3/2006, you wrote:
>[Someone said]
>Pirsig doesn't specifically incorporate the characteristics of perseverance,
>patience, honesty, courage, self-reliance, etc. into the MOQ.
>
>[Platt]
>No doubt they are in the MOQ somewhere. The question is, "Where?"
>
>[DH]
>All of them seem to have social and intellectual 
>aspects apart from  courage.  I
>cannot think of an intellectual aspect to courage.  But this is a moot point
>for now.
>
>[Arlo]
>I think rather than getting hung up on what may or may not be high quality
>social or biological or even intellectual level 
>patterns, a better place to be,
>or a better question to ask is "what is a person who is filled with Quality?"
>
>In ZMM, Pirsig addresses this point many times. For example, he says...
>
>"I like the word "gumption" because it’s so 
>homely and so forlorn and so out of
>style it looks as if it needs a friend and isn’t likely to reject anyone who
>comes along. It’s an old Scottish word, once 
>used a lot by pioneers, but which,
>like "kin," seems to have all but dropped out of 
>use. I like it also because it
>describes exactly what happens to someone who connects with Quality. He gets
>filled with gumption.
>
>The Greeks called it enthousiasmos, the root of "enthusiasm." which means
>literally "filled with theos," or God, or Quality. See how that fits?
>
>A person filled with gumption doesn’t sit around dissipating and stewing about
>things. He’s at the front of the train of his own awareness, watching to see
>what’s up the track and meeting it when it comes. That’s gumption."
>
>Okay. About "gumption", Pirsig noted two types 
>of traps that drain it away, "set
>backs" and "hang ups". Let's step away from set backs, and focus on hang up.
>Mainly because I think by examing the 
>characterists that create "hang ups", and
>drain gumption, we can posit that the reverse of these would be someone "in
>touch with Quality".
>
>The first is "value rigidity". Someone trapped 
>by this is not able to respond to
>Quality, so I'd posit that "value flexibility" is an important characteristic
>of a "Quality principled person".
>
>The next is "ego", also a frequent cause of "value rigidity". Hence I'd posit
>that "egolessness" or "modesty" is another characteristic of the "Quality
>principled person".
>
>Next, "anxiety" or fear of failure. Since this 
>is the opposite of "ego" (in the
>gumption traps), I'd again posit that "egolessness" is again the Quality
>antonymic pole.
>
>Next, "bordom". Hence I'd say (with Pirsig) that 
>the characterist opposite this
>is having a "beginner’s mind".
>
>"Impatience" comes next, so I'd posit "patience" would indeed be a
>characteristic of the "Quality principled person".
>
>So far, then, we have the "Quality principled 
>person" as one who is filled with
>gumption, posseses value flexibility, is egoless, has a beginner's mind and is
>patient.
>
>Also, as I posted many times, Pirsig's description of arete, as someone who is
>in touch with Quality BEFORE S/O dualism breaks that attachment, goes as such.
>
>"Thus the hero of the Odyssey is a great fighter, a wily schemer, a ready
>speaker, a man of stout heart and broad wisdom who knows that he must endure
>without too much complaining what the gods send; 
>and he can both build and sail
>a boat, drive a furrow as straight as anyone, 
>beat a young braggart at throwing
>the discus, challenge the Pheacian youthat boxing, wrestling or running; flay,
>skin, cut up and cook an ox, and be moved to tears by a song. He is in fact an
>excellent all-rounder; he has surpassing areté.
>
>Areté implies a respect for the wholeness or oneness of life, and a consequent
>dislike of specialization. It implies a contempt for efficiency...or rather a
>much higher idea of efficiency, an efficiency which exists not in one
>department of life but in life itself."
>
>So we add to our original list of "characteristics of the Quality principled
>person" and come up with the following.
>
>A "Quality principled person" is someone who 
>respects the oneness of life. S/he
>is patient, egoless and possesses a "beginner's mind". S/he holds her values
>flexibley, and can be seen as filled with gumption. S/he dislikes
>specialization, and is an excellect all-arounder.
>
>But we can go somewhat further. Consider Pirsig's discussion of the wall in
>Korea. "It was beautiful because the people who worked on it had a way of
>looking at things that made them do it right unselfconsciously. They didn’t
>separate themselves from the work in such a way 
>as to do it wrong. There is the
>center of the whole solution."
>
>The aforementioned description is evidence in the craft of the individual. As
>the welder who did beautiful work on Pirsig's chain guard. So let's then
>consider this final description.
>
>A "Quality principled person" is someone who 
>respects the oneness of life. S/he
>is patient, egoless and possesses a "beginner's mind". S/he holds her values
>flexibley, and can be seen as filled with gumption. S/he dislikes
>specialization, and is an excellect all-arounder. In her/his work, she
>demonstrates no division between art and 
>practice, and her/his work can be seen
>as possessing beauty because of their 
>unselfconscious way of looking at things.
>
>Now, isn't that a lot better than trying to raise Victorian social morals to a
>superior position in the MOQ? No? (By the way, there are more descriptors of
>the Quality principled person we could gleen 
>from ZMM, this is just an "off the
>cuff" start).
>
>
>
>
>
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