[MD] Distinguishing Levels (Individual level)

[Platt Holden]

>  [Platt]
> That's just it, there is no "scientific consensus."
> 
> [Case]
> I started to compile a list of web based sources on this but figured
> what is the use. I know that I am getting older and some of my ideas are
> a bit more rigid that I would like. One of the reasons I love reading
> and writing these posts is to jar myself out of this condition. But I am
> starting to think all that stuff Arlo say about you might be right. If
> your desire to continue believing something is so strong that you ignore
> facts why do you bother?

Bother doing what? Seems to me you ignore facts that contradict your 
beliefs. Two can play that game.

> I truly do like talking to some one who
> disagrees with me. It sharpens the thinking process like nothing else. I
> had a string of chats with Scott Roberts a few months ago. I never
> agreed with him about anything but I am forever in his debt for helping
> me refine my thoughts. 
> 
> You are a great asset to the MoQ discussions because you are so
> infuriating but you are at you best when you engage a little bit. This
> stuff here... There is no consensus... What does that mean?

According to Merriam-Webster it means unanimity. 

> I don't want
> to start source slinging but sheesh. The UN, all of the countries in the
> western world except us and the Australians... International science
> committees, the gang on Sesame Street... Who is saying there is no
> consensus? The tobacco lobby? The board of directors at Exxon? 
> 
> If you say there in no consensus that would suggests that half of the
> atmospheric scientists say there is a problem and half say there is.
> Have you read this somewhere? Was this on the radio? Or is this an
> inversion of my favorite Christian refrigerator magnet: Gore said it. I
> don't believe. That settles it?

Like you I don't want to start source slinging either.

> [Case]
> I was talking about both but how would entrepreneurs turn a buck off
> deflecting falling rocks? 

Sheesh. Entrepreneurs love government contracts. They pay big bucks. 

> [Case]
> > Why would you want to pepper the land with power plants that produce
> > waste products that can kill anything that comes near it for the next
> > 40,000 years? 
> 
> 
> [Platt]
> Bury the waste or send it into the great beyond.
> 
> [Case]
> You offering up your backyard for this? Who do you know that wants this
> stuff anywhere near them? How is it going to get to the big hole we are
> digging for it? On the Interstate? In trains? This is going to make Al
> Qaeda's job really easy for them. Blasting it into space? Hmm driving in
> the freeway next to me or strapping it to a rocket and shooting it over
> my head? I'm not liking any of this.

How does France and other European countries solve the problems you 
raise? I share your worries about rockets, though, given the Keystone  
Cops currently running NASA.  

> [Case said:]
> > As for refineries, why would you want to encourage continued reliance
> > on
> an energy source that is guaranteed to run out soon, is controlled by
> people > who hate us and appears to be escalating in cost with no end in
> sight?
> 
> 
> [Platt]
> Run out soon. You must be kidding. Who have you been listening to? Oh,
> what a second, let me guess. Old fear monger himself.
> 
> [Case]
> Have you heard of anyone making more of it? It is a fossil fuel. It is
> called that cause it takes a really long to form. If we use it up we
> have to wait a like forever for more to brew. If there is not more being
> made then it is running out. Besides oil of very useful for making roads
> and plastic and lots of good stuff why would be want to burn it up?
> Clearly it is becoming more scarce. Correct me if I am wrong here but my
> understanding of the Theory of Supply and Demand leads me to believe
> that is why it is costing more. But who are you listening to?

More doomsday scare stuff. My sources say there is huge deposits of oil 
in many places, but the environmentalists won't let us get at it, like 
offshore. But as you say, let's don't start slinging sources. I went 
through that futile exercise once with Ant.
 
> [Platt]
> I can't explain sudden burst of species formation. The mystery is why
> get born if it just leads to death? Finally, holes like there's no
> evidence in the fossil record of gradualism.
> 
> [Case]
> It does just that didn't we just talk about Gould? Evolution is not
> about Why this stuff happens it is about how it happens. Gradualism?
> Didn't we just talk about how evolution is a gradualist theory? Once
> again there is almost no disagreement in the scientific community about
> the major points of Evolutionary theory and unlike atmospheric science
> this is a broad theory that touches every scientific discipline. It is
> the basis for all scientific understanding of who we are and how we got
> here. It is supported by finding in physics, chemistry, geology,
> biology, history, anthropology, psychology even philosophy. The whole of
> the western intellectual community supports this theory but you don't
> like it you don't understand it so you are going to simply wish it
> away...

Oh I believe in evolution, just not all of the Darwinian version nor 
what Gould had to to say. Anyway, as far as I'm concerned Pirsig  
explains evolution a lot better than the scientists. But how many are 
paying any attention to him?. 

> > [Case]
> > Something can be true by definition. I was providing my understanding
> > of a definition. It was a conditional understanding and if you have a
> > better definition or an example of such a truth, I am listening but as
> > it stands
> I find the idea of Absolute Truth just plain silly.
> 
> [Platt]
> I guess you think it's silly that you were born. Or that existence
> exists and we are here to talk about it.
> 
> [Case]
> That it is silly that I was born, would be an absurdist position and I
> have some sympathy with that. I really don't see what choice existence
> has but to exist. What else would it do? Entertaining as this is I am
> not all that big on talking sense with the senseless.

So don't.