[MD] Ever redefining self

[Heather Perella]

Hello Ham,

     Ham said:  " Yet, while we can't experience the
"uncreated" source directly, I've tried to show that
its "value" is what we all seek in life.  This is the
equivalent of saying "we want its essence for
ourself."

     Ham, maybe before your thesis was not very clear
or I not very clear about your thesis - I did try.  I
remember discussing with you nothingness for maybe a
month or so.  It was difficult, and your thesis seems
to be on-going and developing.  
     This quote of yours above is definitely
understandable.  I've tried to bring up connectiveness
or connection with you in the past.  This was not
corresponded by you as to whether 'connection' is what
your getting to or not.  If you read my last post in
this thread, then you may notice
connection/relationship is a human effort.  This
'value' you mention above in which we all seek, "This
is the equivalent of saying "we want its essence for
ourself."  This is the border where I have placed this
thread upon.  I have stated not only a vain desire for
us to know reality exists, but also scientific theory
tries to bridge the gap between the empirical
knowledge with the non-empirical knowledge of the
past.  That which has come before our records, as
humankind, is either orally told via stories, dug or
scoped through a telescope.  The past is bridged by
theories as James Hutton I mentioned in the previous
post of mine in this thread.  Always though, is this
desire.  
     I have mentioned that this desire is in vain,
because we will not know all as human beings.  We are
limited in our scope and by experience.  Some days we
crave more than others.  This craving is an
intellectual curiosity.  We want to build bridges.  A
whole ceremony in the Amazon or a Pacific island (the
place eludes me at this moment) surrounds the building
of a bamboo bridge.  It is spiritual.  It is logic
itself, trying to organize and bring order to a world
that has an undefinable aspect still in the midst. 
Will this undefinable ever stop being undefinable
while we are human beings?  We don't and could not
answer such a question.  
     If this is what you mean by essence and
self/other bridged by value then let me know.
     I also wonder about this desire, this valuing, as
you put it.  This desire to know and bridge.  To make
connections for not only our survival, but how this
ability has sparked art filled efforts that apply
beauty not for any particular reason other than to
clear our heads, relaxation, put still we learn
something during the connection and relationship we
have between the use of our minds and seeing our
imagination applied in nature.  When I shoot a bow to
kill a deer, the art in how this can be accomplished
is practical and not practical.  Practical in what my
stomach can gain, but not practical in how I am
alleviated, in spirit, by my intention making a
connection with reality and the arrow bridges what I
try to do with what happens.  The circle is completed
and accomplishment is fulfilled in heart by this
completeness, connection, relationship, and bridge
building.
     This wondering I have about desire is how
sometimes we may lose sight of how we can't know.  We
desire to know something, and we learn, but to think
we can ever come up with a conclusion that ends all
and completes all is a desire that will never be
satisfied.  The emptiness, the nothingness that I have
always mentioned is this clarity we need to have in
our mind.  A real clear mind.  Just as in the Amazon
or Pacific island when they build a bamboo bridge. 
The bridge is actual, it is a metaphor, it is a
spiritual and physical realization for the whole
village.  The ceremony emphasizes all of this.  When I
say clear mind, not too heavy on the thought, is to
notice thinking, but also the wind outside blowing as
a storm approaches.  This path allowing this to happen
has nothing to impede the eyes and ears from noticing
the wind or ones thoughts.  It is really a clear mind.
 It is really the air and sky.  There is nothing in
the way.      

     Ham said:  "In a metaphysical sense, Essence is
the object of our desire.  We sense its value
incrementally or relationally in the properties and
qualities of an otherness we do not possess and make
them the "sensible" part of our experience.  At the
same time, our intellect (the cognizant function of
the brain) integrates and logs these sensations as
specific "things" in memory, positioning them in an
orderly space/time system that correlates with
everybody else's "reality"."

     Thus, this intellect integrating and logging
sensations and "positioning them in an orderly
space/time system", this is our action, our doing as
human beings.  When we reach out to another and help
them we feel a sense of accomplishment due to what we
desire and thus value.  We value and desire to
complete this circle.  To have everything be together
and complete.  Not to rid and destroy, but to bridge,
build, and develop in a way that completes the circle.
 If we need to kill something to complete the circle
(food), the so be it.  We will do anything to complete
this circle.  How this is to be done?  That is the
question that has plagued humankind for a very, very,
very long time.  How we define essence?  How we define
self?  How we define the universe?  How we define G-d?
 This defining of any of these is an act of our
intellect to bridge the gap, to complete the circle,
to conclude what essence is?  (Am I not correct?)  The
act of defining in this manner, on the grounds of
philosophy, is to have to admit we will come up empty.
 We will eventually notice an emptiness that in our
seeking, in our desire, in our valuing of this
complete circle, even in our desiring via our
intellect to put all the pieces together, we must
conclude that nothingness will be here, for us, as
human beings, since our scope and our effort to put
this all together in our valuing - will not happen
while we are human beings.  We will keep on learning. 
We can realize this, and still learn.  We can learn
what we have realized, and notice that aspect of our
circle, this completion we desire to bridge by our
valuing of essence will always for us as human beings
have an empty, incomplete side to our effort, our
experience.  We will never fill that monsters stomach
(referring to my last post in this thread).  

     In other words, I have either used my own way to
decipher what your talking about Ham.  I have
concluded differently than you.  Or else we are coming
back to being on the same page due to our practicing
in making clear 'how we experience and notice' life. 
Clarity, that bright light, may have allowed itself to
return to our discussion after our quests that brought
us searching in new lands afar.  A bridge may have
been built due to what we both knew all along.  As for
me, I just didn't know how to put it into words, in a
way that you may understand, or we still are not
talking about the same 'thing'.

Thanks,
SA

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