[MD] The Individual Level

[Stephen Hannon]

[Platt quoting Pirsig (pg. 311)]:
"The events that excited people in the twenties were events that
dramatized the new dominance of intellect over society. Literature
emphasized the struggle of the noble, free-thinking individual against
the crushing oppression of evil social conformity." (Lila, 22)

[Gene quoting Pirsig in full]:
" The events that excited people in the twenties were events that dramatized
the new dominance of intellect over society. In the chaos of social patterns
a wild new intellectual experimentation could now take place. Abstract art,
discordant music, Freudian psychoanalysis, the Sacco-Vanzetti trial,
contempt for alcoholic prohibiton. Literature emphasized the struggle of the
noble, free-thinking individual against the crushing oppression of evil
social conformity."

[Steve H quotes Pirsig (page 312)]:
"The hurricane of social forces released by the overthrow of society
by intellect was most strongly felt in Europe, particularly Germany,
where the effects of World War I were the most devastating.  Communism
and socialism, programs for the intellectual control over society,
were confronted by the reactionary forces of fascism, a program for
the social control of intellect."

Platt, you have repeatedly rejected communism before.  How would you
explain this passage, found on the very next page after the passage
you quoted!?

Regards,
Steve H

On 7/13/06, Arlo Bensinger <ajb102 at psu.edu> wrote:
> [Platt]
> Publishing information that helps bilogical killers is a social pattern
> called treason.
>
> [Arlo]
> But they were "honest". That's my point. "Honesty" is a social level moral
> that must be weighed in depending on the social context. Like telling your
> spouse s/he hasn't gained weight, when that is not really "honest". I'm
> with you more than not on the NYT, by the way. I'm not sure I saw eminent
> danger to the public. So long as Congress was briefed and approved, the
> actions were likely legit, and the NYT made a grievous error. Had Congress
> NOT been briefed, then the potential threat of the exposure was worth it.
> Unaccountable executive power is a greater threat, no matter who is the
> president.
>
> [Arlo previously]
> These "social morals" must be weighed in "social context", and applied as
> is Good, something that a Quality Principled Person would be able to figure
> out.
>
> [Platt]
> A QPP like you, of course. Didn't you say something about a QQP being
> egoless? Bizarre.
>
> [Arlo]
> I think we should all strive to be a QPP, wouldn't you say? Isn't that more
> valuable a quest than proclaiming self-righteous superiority based on blind
> adherence to a few Victorian social morals?
>
> But my point was that someone who was Quality-Principled would know when to
> apply particular social morals, and when to NOT apply them. Or at the
> least, they wouldn't base their ego on some self-righteous adherence to
> static social level morals.
>
> I'm also curious why you think the QPP denies "seeking a place "to be alone
> and quiet and inconspicuous"? I don't personally recall this from Pirsig,
> but I find no contradiction between the QPP and this value. Indeed, if you
> can cite for me where Pirsig mentions this as a trait of someone in touch
> with Quality, I'll be glad to amend my definition.
>
> So, I'm going to repost this again, and ask you specifically where you feel
> it diverges from Pirsig. Specifically, which of these qualities do you feel
> is "liberal"?
>
> [Arlo's proposed definition based on ZMM]
> A "Quality principled person" is someone who respects the oneness of life.
> S/he is patient, egoless and possesses a "beginner's mind". S/he holds her
> values flexibley, and can be seen as filled with gumption. S/he dislikes
> specialization, and is an excellect all-arounder. In her/his work, she
> demonstrates no division between art and practice, and her/his work can be
> seen as possessing beauty because of their unselfconscious way of looking
> at things.
>
>
>
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