[MD] The Individual Level

[Arlo Bensinger]

[Platt]
I gave you an example from Pirsig about intellectual level honesty which 
you chose to ignore -- the scientist faking data. But if you deny there is 
such a thing as intellectual honesty, I wouldn't be greatly surprised.

[Arlo]
Because the "dishonesty" is a social level event that effects the quality 
of the intellectual level patterns. Ask, why would the scientist "fake" his 
data? Can you think of any intellectual level reason? No. Any example I can 
think of involves "faking" for the sake of elevating social level 
"celebrity" over intellectual level patterns.

[Platt]
I would call that "keeping peace in the family" honesty.

[Arlo]
You would call lying to spouse about his/her weight gain "honesty"? Seems 
to me, then, you're simply saying "honesty" is whatever I say it is.

[Platt]
We agree. But why not charge the NYT with treason and penalize them 
according to the law?

[Arlo]
I'm not sure what you're asking me. Like I said, if it's shown that the 
espionage was done following due process and oversight, then I find the NYT 
likely committed a grievous error. If there was no due process or 
oversight, then their actions were worth it. As for criminal charges, this 
is for the courts to decide. No?

[Platt]
Seems to me your QPP is about as self-righteous as they come. At least as 
you seem to define yourself as being one.

[Arlo]
I claim to try to be one. Whether or not I succeed is another matter. But 
the effort is more valuable, I think, than picking a few social level 
morals and proclaiming myself superior for adhering to them.

[Arlo previously]
I think we should all strive to be a QPP, wouldn't you say?

[Platt]
No I wouldn't say.

[Arlo]
So, following Pirsig's guides for getting in touch with Quality isn't 
important, but obedience to social level morals is? Strange, but to each 
his own.

[Platt]
See Chap. 30 of Lila. Incidentally, how about adding that your QPP is a 
free marketeer?

[Arlo]
Well, "business" is a social level venture, so it really does not mean much 
in terms of my contact with Quality. But, I'd accept that to the QPP, 
maintaining a balance between SQ and DQ is critical. I thought I had this 
mentioned with "value flexibility", where one adheres to values, but not so 
rigidly as to become trapped in a "value trap". No?

As for Chapter 30, I find the following key passages.

Both lunatics and mystics have freed themselves from the conventional 
static intellectual patterns of their culture. The only difference is that 
the lunatic has shifted over to a private static pattern of his own, 
whereas the mystic has abandoned all static patterns in favor of pure 
Dynamic Quality.

The Metaphysics of Quality says that it is immoral for sane people to force 
cultural conformity by suppressing the Dynamic drives that produce insanity.

But what goes unrecognized in a subject-object theoretical structure is the 
fact that this senseless unpatterned state is a valuable state of existence.

The Metaphysics of Quality says that what sometimes accidentally occurs in 
an insane asylum but occurs deliberately in a mystic retreat is a natural 
human process called dhyana in Sanskrit. In our culture dhyana is 
ambiguously called "meditation."

I like this, and so I will addend the Quality Principled Person as follows.

A "Quality principled person" is someone who respects the oneness of 
life.  S/he is patient, egoless and possesses a "beginner's mind". S/he 
holds her values flexibley, and can be seen as filled with gumption. S/he 
dislikes specialization, and is an excellect all-arounder. In her/his work, 
she demonstrates no division between art and practice, and her/his work can 
be seen as possessing beauty because of their unselfconscious way of 
looking at things. The Quality Principled Person recognizes that Dhyana, or 
meditation, can be used to empty out "static junk" that prevents access to 
Quality. Furthermore, s/he will strive to find a balance between static and 
Dynamic qualities in all aspects of her/his life.

Good?

Now, as to your specific responses.

[Arlo's proposed definition based on ZMM]
A "Quality principled person" is someone who respects the oneness of life.

[Platt]
We're all one, Kumbaya. Liberal.

[Arlo]
This, of course, refers to the Homerian hero, who before S/O dualism 
followed arete. Pirsig writes, "Areté implies a respect for the wholeness 
or oneness of life". You disagree? Or is "arete" a liberal thing?

[Arlo previously]
S/he is patient, egoless and possesses a "beginner's mind".

[Platt]
Patience is an intellectual level virtue. Egoless is liberal. Beginner's 
mind I suppose is a mind like a child. Liberals play the children card at 
the drop of a hat, always "saving" them with other people's money.

[Arlo]
What in my statement refers in any way to "liberals saving children with 
other people's money"? All these traits are those Pirsig describes as 
necessary to avoid gumption traps and to become "filled with Quality". You 
disagree?

[Arlo previously]
S/he holds her values flexibley, and can be seen as filled with gumption.

[Platt]
Value flexibility is definitely liberal, sticking a finger in the political 
wind to see which way its blowing. Gumption is an quintessential 
intellectual level trait right out of the Victorian era.

[Arlo]
"Value flexibility" is liberal? Reaaaaally? Pirsig writes, "Of the value 
traps, the most widespread and pernicious is value rigidity. This is an 
inability to revalue what one sees because of commitment to previous 
values. In motorcycle maintenance, you must rediscover what you do as you 
go. Rigid values make this impossible." I didn't read this as a 
condemnation of "conservatives", but if "value flexibility" is liberal, 
then I suppose "value rigidity" is "conservative".  Oh well, that's your 
dichotomy then.

[Arlo previously]
S/he dislikes specialization, and is an excellect all-arounder.

[Platt]
Sounds like "blowin' in the wind." Liberal.

[Arlo]
So, the following describes a "liberal". "Thus the hero of the Odyssey is a 
great fighter, a wily schemer, a ready speaker, a man of stout heart and 
broad wisdom who knows that he must endure without too much complaining 
what the gods send; and he can both build and sail a boat, drive a furrow 
as straight as anyone, beat a young braggart at throwing the discus, 
challenge the Pheacian youthat boxing, wrestling or running; flay, skin, 
cut up and cook an ox, and be moved to tears by a song. He is in fact an 
excellent all-rounder; he has surpassing areté."

So, according to you, liberals must then have suprising arete. Interesting.

[Arlo previously]
In her/his work, she demonstrates no division between art and practice, and 
her/his work can be seen as possessing beauty because of their 
unselfconscious way of looking at things.

[Platt]
Ah, craftsmanship. An intellectual virtue.

[Arlo]
No. A trait of someone who is in touch with Quality. A Quality Principled 
Person.

[Platt]
So we come up with a mixture of traits, but by and large, liberal in its 
feel-good generalities.

[Arlo]
Since this is all directly from Pirsig, then Pirsig is a liberal, okay. Fine.

[Platt]
Personally I like the free-market, mind your own business, take no 
prisoners Pirsig.

[Arlo]
What you like is Rigel. It's all you every really argue for. Indeed, your 
"principled person" could use Rigel as its poster child.